Friday, March 20, 2020


Back in NZL last night on what was announced as the last Air NZ flight from Samoa.   The medical screening here was a feekin joke.

Let's backpedal a couple of weeks ago when we traveled to Samoa ... we had to have a medical certificate signed by our Dr that we were fit to travel but that was only part of it.   When we landed we were not allowed to disembark until medical staff had come on board and questioned the crew as to whether anyone had appeared unwell during the flight.   Two persons were escorted off the aircraft for enhanced screening.   We then disembarked and went through two check points before even making it to immigration.   At the first checkpoint medical staff checked passports paying particular attention to where you had been over the preceding fourteen days.   Two persons didn't make it through that process.  They too were led away for enhanced screening.   We then went through a second checkpoint where we were examined individually by medical professionals and had our temperatures taken and then and only then were we allowed to go through the standard immigration process.     Clearly the Samoan authorities were on top of their game.

Fast forward to yesterday by which time Samoa was reporting its first suspected case of COVID-19 and Fiji its first confirmed case.   NZ 254 arrived pretty much on time and by 1530 we were buckled up and ready for departure.   We then sat and sat and sat until we were informed by the Captain that the Samoan authorities had refused entry to five passengers ex 254 and they were being rtnz on our flight.   This created a bit of a stir.   They boarded and were seated where there were empty seats.   They were not kept together and isolated (say down at the back of the aircraft).    Four hours later we arrived in Auckland to be greeted by medical personnel who asked us how we were feeling but nothing more and were handed a leaflet which said and I quote ... "People traveling from the Pacific islands listed below do not need to self-isolate" ... list included Fiji, Samoa and 15 other countries.

FFS ... Fiji confirmed, Samoa suspected and we're incarcerated on an aircraft for four hours with people denied entry into Samoa and the authorities say you're not required to self-isolate.

Cut through the bullshit and the government's attempts to limit the spread of the virus are pathetic.   The border should have been closed two weeks ago and even the supposed draconian measures imposed last Sunday were a joke.   Our experience last night gives proof to that.  The government missed the bus and now there's a price to pay and it could be a very big one.

p.s.    Vet and Mrs Vet have self-isolated.


Max Ritchie said...

And yet, Vet, I continually hear how well Ms Arden is handling this. Just shows what smoke, mirrors, a smile and an uncritical audience will do. My grandson gave me a MAGA (Make Arden Go Away) hat which I will start wearing (not that anyone will see it - I live in a retirement village and we’ve all been asked to stay home).

pdm said...

Vet your story is similar to many arrival stories I have heard on the radio over the last week - including yesterday. Probably 10 or 12 in total but not all first hand.

This morning Health Minister Clark could not tell Mike Hosking how many testing kits there were in the country and this was further emphasised by a Health Center reporting that they had ordered 20 kits and received one.

Anonymous said...

I came in from Manila, via Singapore Thursday a week ago as the city was getting ready to lock down because of the virus. Philippines and Singapore authorities thorough, careful and efficient - temperature scans, health questionnaires etc. I was working up there for the week and was super careful about hygiene etc.

I got in before the self-isolate cut off that was operating at that time. Was asked by Customs if I was planning to self isolate. Told them no, but then thought better of it. 8 days into self-isolation and still feeling fine.

No temperature checks, no health questionnaires, and pretty simple questioning. As a result we will probably get what we deserve here in NZ.

The government feel like they are consistently about a week behind on their responses. Someone has asked the question how many ventilators we have in NZ, apparently no one can answer the question. We had better hope is more than 30-50.

Max Ritchie said...

I lunched this week with a former Labour minster. He said that this is the weakest cabinet he’s ever come across. Where are the Clarks, Cullens, a Stan Rodger, let alone a Peter Fraser? Or someone of the caliber of Douglas, Caygill, Key, English, Birch? There’s not a soul in this lot whom you’d rate. Good press secretary though, paid a PM’s salary.

Noel said...

No the Samoans are not on the top of the game. No screening for tuberculosis which in Samoa is classed as endemic.
Bring it to NZ but they bitch about measles.
Appears Samoas suspected Covid case was back for a family gathering.
Maybe that's why they aren't crowing about importation from NZ.

Judge Holden said...

Oh Max, you big-noter you! Do tell? Bassett? Shirley? Tamihere?? Whoever it was their opinion is duly noted and mocked. Now, mind if I play through?

The Veteran said...

Noel ... I reported what it was. Certainly in respect of Covid-19 the Samoan authorities appeared to be taking it far far more seriously than the NZL authorities. Clearly 1919 and 2019 weighed heavily on their minds. Can't talk about TB and that's just dissembling from what is, IMHO, a f****p of gigantic proportions from the NZL authorities in respect of border security.

I'm angry.

Psycho Milt said...

If your argument is that the government is incompetent for allowing people to travel to and from Samoa the last couple of weeks, why did you travel to and from there?

Psycho Milt said...

Or someone of the caliber of Douglas, Caygill, Key, English, Birch?

Thank Christ there's no-one similar to those fuckers in the current Cabinet, is all I can say.

Reginald Perin said...

To prove the Government's incompetence, of course.

Judge Holden said...

Grrrrr, Vet’s angry grrrrrrrr. By you logic, you put us all at risk by travelling to Samoa in the first place, Why would you do that?

I’m angry.

Psycho Milt said...

Someone has asked the question how many ventilators we have in NZ, apparently no one can answer the question.

Oh for fuck's sake, anyone can answer that question. The answer is "Nowhere near enough to cope with a mass outbreak, by at least an order of magnitude." That answer wouldn't be different if National had won the last election, but they know it makes for good panic-mongering.

Still, it does raise the question of why successive governments over the decades have spent taxpayers' cash to maintain pandemic plans and well-qualified medical experts to advise them, when all they needed to do was assemble a committee of grumpy old men to tell them how to deal with a pandemic. I guess it will forever remain a mystery.

Anonymous said...

But Veteran it's all hysteria and over reaction. Totally unnecessary according to Gravedodgers, Toms, Adolfs and your posts. Don't be so cross, it's just a minor flu bug and we can't let the economy suffer can we, all those plummeting shares..horror.

Taking temperatures is good for public relations and little else as as an infected person can spread the virus for days without showing a temperature unlike SARs and indeed the Spanish Flu. If this was the Spanish Flu we would be in a better position medically than we are today.

I really do find the politising of this Pandemic, yes Veteran Pandemic, look the word up, is distasteful and undermining public confidence in our systems and our Govt in this time of crisis beyond contempt and as you and Max are ex soldiers and should know the importance of morale in times of crisis.

John Ogilvie

The Veteran said...

Ogilvie ... grow up and get real. People are sick and people (not in NZL just yet) are dying although the majority of those who catch this virus will not require medical intervention provided they follow simple guidelines including hydration. But to allow a possible 180 people into the country who may have been exposed to the virus and tell them they don't need to self-isolate might be seen my many as bordering on the criminal incompetence. And don't come the prissy shit with me for blogging on our experience ... you're singing from the same song-sheet as those who argued that the trial of William Calley Kelly of My Lai 'fame' was wrong because it undermined morale.

Holden ... you too (grow up). When I went there were no restrictions on travel to Samoa and not even a travel advisory in place. During the period I was away at least eleven MPs including cabinet ministers traveled out of the country. Your throwing it back at me is classic disassembling and confirms both your stupidity and inability to acknowledge wrong.

Andrei said...

For Goodness sakes John Oglivie - it not flu bug its a cold bug, a corona virus

And it is our political class a running around like headless chooks, spreading panic and doom

They are acting like it is the 14th century and we are facing the black death over what is in effect the common cold.

The world has caught a case of mass hysteria - the virus is spreading fast because for the vast majority of people its effect is so benign they don't even know they are infected

For a few elderly people with compromised immune systems it can trigger pneumonia which can be fatal. This has occurred in just over 3000 people in China, a Nation of over billion people which sees over 40,000 people die every day in the normal course of events. And thee three thousand deaths are not additinl to the normal background death rate - most of thee people were likely to die in the near future in any case

This is craziness - we are headed for an economic depression which will make the Great depression of the 1930s look like small a blip if we are not careful.

This is a normal natural event which happens all the time, when the weather gets colder respiratory illnesses take hold spread and some people who have come to the end of their natural lifspan die.

And guess what mate - Everybody dies, nobody escapes. And foolish posturing politians cannot change that, not even by trashing the world's economy

RosscoWlg said...

Actually Milt the opposition in Parliament asked how many ventilators are available in NZ. It took over 2 weeks to find the answer.

Of course your Govt is so incompetent no one thought to ask the obvious question how many are in use.

I also fear that your incompetent probably didn't ask the basic question, where are they located.?

So your mindless answer "that anyone can answer that question is pure lefttard disassembling.

And your next comment is a typical of a person undereducated in maths and logic and statistical analysis, but an A+ student in Media Studies, ""Nowhere near enough to cope with a mass outbreak"

How do you know that, you don't, the only way you can tell is by analysis of the facts, then running scenarios.

Heres something for one of your wild claims..what say there is a hot spot in New Plymouth but all the ventilators are in Auckland and Wellington..

Oh by the way what is your Govt doing to source more ventilators to meet your self claimed "mass outbreak."

Look forward to your non answer...

Cheers mate

Anonymous said...

Dear Milt,

Further to this comment: Oh for fuck's sake, anyone can answer that question. The answer is "Nowhere near enough to cope with a mass outbreak, by at least an order of magnitude." That answer wouldn't be different if National had won the last election, but they know it makes for good panic-mongering.

I am not that interested in the politics, just in reasonably keeping as many people people alive as possible.

I am sure most people can work out the answer to the ventilator question is not going to be a good one, but the answer is the result of a philosophy of health service provision that has been in place for at least the last 30 years. That is multiple political administrations, and now we are likely to be badly caught out.

I will return to my observation that the government seems to be a week behind in responses. And probably much further behind than that on the ventilator question.

Just an observation - we should also probably using emergency powers to get some new ICU and containment hospital capacity developed whilst we still have time, but we won't - you know little things like lots of extra beds and wards, negative pressure rooms, triage and assessment space. Again, we seem to be moving too slow - that should have started a several weeks ago when the trajectory of the pandemic was clear

My feeling is we probably already have community transmission, or will pass that threshold in the next week, then it is going to get even more interesting

Anonymous said...

@Veteran: JO is a grown up I think as he always has something sensible to say usually non political. It is you that needs to get out of your bubble and see what is happening in the rest of the world before you start making comparisons.

There are thousands perhaps hundreds of thousands of people trying to make it back to their home countries and there is no airport test that works apart from self diagnosis just get on plane and make four connections if you have to and get back to your own health service.

If the hundreds of thousands of newspaper comments and blog posts like yours, Tom and all had not been put out we may have been in a better position. I called it at the beginning of January and boy was I ridiculed and shat upon by you "it's only a flu" mob.

So far all I hear is missed lunch appointments, lost airline fares and I had to stand in a fucking queue on this blog. Well that is apart from Hunter sticking it to the Chinese, in very subtle way of course.


Anonymous said...

Jeez veteran is that what living on a small island does to you. I wish that Ardern had followed your advise and closed the borders to EVERYONE while you were still in Samoa

Max Ritchie said...

For Mr Holden: it was a sandwich after an oncology clinic, as it that makes any difference. Other people’s opinions, particularly when they actually know something about the topic, are important - in my opinion, although apparently not in yours. By all means play through - there’s a nice course in Northern Italy which would suit you well. Go for it. And when you come back, how about playing the ball, not the man.

Anonymous said...

Well Max in your first comment you played the Woman not the ball. Do really think that she is responsible for how the civil service and medical profession advise her.

If you take on board the fact that here is no airport test that actually is effective it makes this whole thread superfluous. A crap misleading post in order gain a political point.

I am wary of elderly retired gentlemen with time on their hands. Lots of time.

Tom Piperson

The Veteran said...

Gueez wept ... you blog on an inconvenient truth and suddenly you are the one at fault. Before I left and in my 5 March post I congratulated the government for playing the outbreak with a straight bat and for reaching out to National on this. We now know that was posturing pure and simple.

A smart move would have been to include Bridges in the Cttee of Ministers set up to deal with the crisis which would have taken politics out of the game but no, we can't have that ... the biggest Party in Parliament has to be sidelined.

But that is another story ... you are justified in exposing incompetence and this was incompetence of the highest order.

Our daughter is part of a tracing unit at one of our DHBs. They are totally understaffed. She is working up to 18 hours per day, every day, trying to track down 'tourists' (and others) who are at risk of infection. Elective surgery has been cancelled at the Hospital and they are now working on a plan to empty beds of patients where that is practical. They have been told they can expect no help from neighboring DHBs ... they're on their own. I guess what I'm saying is that while the meme from on high is that everything is being managed appropriately down at the coal face its an entirely different story.

The Veteran said...

TP ... twas not the test (or lack of) that got me going ... it was the incompetence that said you don't have to self-isolate. Thank you too for playing the ageism card ... one of the refuges of those who refuse to debate the issue at hand.

Noel said...

Veteran the form was out of date. 2 days earlier the rules were changed.
Did the medical person say you didn't have to self isolate???

The Veteran said...

Noel ... yes and the answer was only it you felt you had a need to. Begs the obvious question too doesn't it ... why hand out a form with the wrong information. I repeat ... incompetence of the highest order.

Max Ritchie said...

Well, Tom, I think criticizing a politician for their actions is legitimate. Commenting on my golf is not. And my criticism of this politician is regarding her decision-making, not any advice she may have got, or indeed any of her personal qualities. That is, I am playing the ball. You’ll be an elderly retired man yourself one day - unless you’re one of the unfortunates with dementia, you’ll be perfectly entitled to express an opinion and take part in a debate. Just as Vet and I are. You seem to think that somehow age is a barrier. Why?

Noel said...

ROFL said...

So you were told but later read the outraged form but did not telephone the not line for confirmation which was correct?

Anonymous said...

@ veteran.

You wrote this...

"Look, I’m obviously not in a position to comment on the medical aspects of this; I defer to the experts. But neither are medical professionals in a position to comment on the political response to this; mostly they have assiduously declined to do so.

Meanwhile, governments are willy-nilly making drastic decisions that profoundly affect the status of human freedom. Their decisions are going to affect our lives in profound ways. And there has thus far been no real debate on this. It’s just been presumed that containment of the spread rather than the care of the sick is the only way forward.

What’s more, we have governments all-too-willing to deploy their awesome powers to control human populations in direct response to mass public pressure based on fears that have so far not been justified by any available evidence.

Based on the Italy and Austin, Texas, precedents, any mayor of any town anywhere can right now declare a state of emergency, cancel events, shut malls, and close parks. Who is to stop them from shuttering stores, restaurants, schools, and churches, and quarantining whole neighbourhoods? [After all, they did it all so eagerly here in Christchurch after the earthquakes.]

For this reason, we have every reason to be concerned."

So concerned you took off to Samoa Where was your daughter when you wrote that post?

And more from you in the same post....

"Italy now has 16 million people under quarantine, which is to say that they are prisoners.

Anyone living in Lombardy and 14 other central and northern provinces will need special permission to travel. Milan and Venice are both affected. Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte also announced the closure of schools, gyms, museums, nightclubs and other venues across the whole country. The measures, the most radical taken outside China, will last until 3 April.

Americans have been quarantined on cruise ships and then forced to pay for their later hospitalisation. The government that quarantines you has zero intention to pay the costs associated with your care, to say nothing of the opportunity costs of missing work.

The press isn’t helping. The New York Times has cheered it all on, aggressively advocating that governments go Mediaeval on this one."

You put your name to this shit and now you are trying to blameshift after telling the world that they were "overeacting".

Tom Piperson

Snowflake said...

Hang on, did someone actually tell you you did not need to self-isolate? If so that’s a very serious allegation of malfeasance. All incoming travellers have had to self-isolate for at least a week. Who told you that, and have you reported it or are you just going to whine about it on your blog?

The Veteran said...

Tom P ... get feekin real (or stop making things up). I never wrote that. I reposted an OP and prefixed it with this ... "This OP was posted on Peter Cresswell's 'Not PC' blog. It poses some important questions which are well worthy of debate although I suspect there are no black and white answers. One suspects both central and local government will, in the days ahead, come under increasing pressure to be seen to be doing something/anything. One would hope decisions aren't going to be made in haste to be regretted at leisure."

It was there to be debated and you did and that's what blogs are all about so, back off Noddy.

Noel ... thank you for that link. All I can say is that at 2000 on Thursday night that direction had not been relayed to the medical staff doing the checks at Akl International arrivals. I am looking at the piece of paper handed to all those who came off the aircraft. It states clearly that we did not need to self-isolate and when I queried that with the medical person who checked me she confirmed that but said we could if we wanted to. I don't blame her ... clearly the message re the ban had not gotten thru and that's an issue.

The Veteran said...

Flake ... not whining. Telling it how it happened. You think I'm happy about it ... tell you, our daughter went nuts when we told her.

ROFL ... read what I wrote. The NZ Government form handed to us said we did not need to self-isolate. When I queried that with the medical staff (lady) who checked me she confirmed that but said we could do it if we felt a need to. We decided to self-isolate. Suspect many of those on the flight followed the advice tendered to them and arn't bothering. And it seems to me that you're blaming them ... why? .. for following instructions?

Psycho Milt said...

How do you know that, you don't, the only way you can tell is by analysis of the facts, then running scenarios.

It's not rocket science. Around 1% of covid-19 victims end up on a ventilator for an extended period, and the virus is likely to infect around 70% of the population. So, over the period of the epidemic, it's possible that 35,000 people are going to need a ventilator for an extended time. The number of ventilators we have in the country will be in the low hundreds (I think they did get the answer and it was 200 and something). So yes the answer is nowhere near enough, by at least an order of magnitude (or two, depending on whether we slow it down or not). But you don't actually need those numbers to know the answer, because we don't normally maintain an epidemic-level inventory of medical and people to run it, for obvious reasons.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...


"Around 1% of covid-19 victims end up on a ventilator for an extended period, and the virus is likely to infect around 70% of the population."

Something sounds fishy there. Is it possible you are confusing 'reported cases' with estimates of the proportion of a population which will be infected?

RosscoWlg said...

Milt what another load of bullshit. Where do you get these so called facts from... the Greens web site I guess.

Pop on over to WUWT and read the article "Diamond Princess Mysteries" and straight out outta it for you

"And despite that, some 83% (82.7% – 83.9%) of the passengers never got the disease at all "

That's after the virus had been on the ship for weeks, before anyone knew , and after the 2 week isolation of the ship.

That fact has been replicated out in the wild too

So stop blowing stuff out your arse like so many of the Lefttards here!

Judge Holden said...

It’s really funny that Rossco questions basic facts and then punts up a climate change denier website as a reliable source of information on a pandemic. Just proves what a drunken wreck he is. Anyway, hope you and Adolt are self-isolating like the PM recommends for old farts. You both are aren’t you? I would hate it if anything happened to either of you.

RosscoWlg said...

Sludgie they obviously found a "hysteria O ring" overnight and got you back on the road after you were handed your arse on a plate last night by Adolf and my good self.

But you're a great example of a repair in haste not being quite right, wrong model O ring and you still have a leak.

WUWT is not what you claim it is, yes it talks sensibly about climate change, but it is a science based site....dear oh dear. And it has top level scientists from all walks of life commenting and editing. Not Geographers turned Climatologists.

I wont bore you with their disciplines as well out of yours and Milts educational range.

Judge Holden said...

Stay safe, Rossco. Stay safe. Whatever you do don’t do what you usually do and head out to your local bar and drink 12 double vodkas. It’s Saturday, I know, but just stay home and get drunk instead.

RosscoWlg said...

Sludgie I don't drink double vodkas... that's a girls drink.

My sources tell me you drink it with lemonade....makes me shrivel up inside the thought of that.

I guess you are from the bureaucracy along with Milt... suggest you take some courses with your paid downtime coz I guess you and Milt wont be involved with "public service" such as volunteering at emergency school halls set up as treatment centres.

Suggest Statistics 101 and if you have time Economics 101.. the latter a very good introduction to demand and supply concepts, plus other foundations of economics. Don't attempt any Logic courses though.

If study is not quite your thing then you can read "The Big Three in Economics" Adam Smith, Karl Marx and JM Keynes by Mark Skousen.

You'll love the bit on Marx where all his off-spring die of hunger, and diseases bought on by hunger...right up your street I would imagine.

Psycho Milt said...

Here's something from Statistics 101 for you, Rossco: a small percentage of a very large number is still a large number. I don't expect you to grasp the implications of that in relation to the country's ability to meet the demand for ventilators in a covid-19 outbreak, but most readers of the thread will.

Andrei said...

Now I have heard everything - Psycho Milt given lectures on statistics

Hey Rossco as any good Russki will tell you the only way to drink Vodka is neat, straight from the freezer - and its an effective antidote for Covid-19 or in any case Covid-19 panic

ROFL said...

Doger and Veteran. Stay home no non essential trips.

RosscoWlg said...

Andrei .. yep Milt lecturing on statistics is very frightening indeed.... I was quaking over his very large number

Is Vodka effective against Leftardism... like a wooden stake is against Bolsheviks?

I must admit I have never drunk vodka straight or straight from the freezer. I have some Russian "friends" but not in a social sense. :)

Anonymous said...

I met an American acquaintance in the supermarket on Tuesday, he is in showbiz and was attached to Maddona's world tours. Funnily he is from Chicago. He said something that has stuck in my mind and was extremely relevant to my own thoughts.

He said "The virus is in the computer and now the world will have to reboot".

Because the British economy has juddered into reverse, set to shrink by 15% according to some estimates – a collapse more catastrophic than the Great Depression. Each day has brought news that, in normal times, would constitute an epochal, ground-shaking development but which, in the current climate, has struggled for airtime.

The Bank of England cut interest rates to their lowest level since the Bank was founded in 1694, and announced an infusion of £200bn. The pound slid to its lowest level against the dollar since the mid-1980s.

Meanwhile, a Conservative government has torn up 40 years of small-state, free market doctrine, first promising to spend a staggering £330bn, and then on Friday evening committing to pay 80% of the wages of workers who have had to down tools, with “no limit” on the funds available. The chancellor, Rishi Sunak, did not exaggerate when he said nothing like this had ever been done before. Even hardcore socialism usually stopped short of calling for the government to take on the payroll of private sector employers. Now it’s Tory party policy.

Criticism where criticism is due. The PM Ardern is making a big mistake in following Boris Johnson's lead and not shutting down the entertainment industry (he has now but two weeks two late).

Britain's death curve is now steeper than Italy's and most doctors agree that if the UK gets away with 10,000 deaths it can consider itself lucky. It was the second wave of the Spanish flu that was the most deadly and now the scientists think the virus is mutating slightly. Underlying health issues now also include obesity and asthma.

The virus is adept at seeking out the bodies weaknesses and exploiting them. Sounds a bit like another virus I know.

Petri Dish

RosscoWlg said...

Petri Dish, the virus affects people more in the over 80 category. That is a proven scientific fact.

In the USA there are 3500 deaths resulting from traffic accidents EVERY month!

The outbreaks in CA and WA seem to be running their course but NY seems to be a hot spot.

Of course world economies are going into reverse... if the death toll in the US for example is less than the addition of several months of car deaths is the economic devastation worth it... ?

Meanwhile those who bagged the Chloroqunine may have egg on their face...were you one of those?.Two closely related anti-malarials, hydroxychloroquine (the small French trial) and chloroquine phosphate can stop the virus in 6 days in a patient.

However it is not a long term solution , we will need vaccine

Anonymous said...

You would say that Tom wouldn't you. Old people over 80 my arse.

To take your argument to the logical conclusion. It would be OK if a manufacture put a car on the the road so unsafe it killed an extra 200 people a day. Tom Roscow, back to the vodka old son.

Just a few facts about your vodka. In 1914 Tsar Nick II outlawed the sale of vodka in Russia. In 1918 Tsar Nick and his family were executed in Yekaterinberg..these two facts are not unrelated.

There is the theory that 1914-17 are the only three years in Russian history when the population has been sober enough to notice exactly what their government were doing to them.

The lesson on Tsar Nick II dis not sink in and Gorbachev launched a temperance campaign in 1985 telling the Russian people vodka was not a necessity of life, six years later they lost the Soviet empire.

So keep up the tradition Roscow and hopefully you might become one of the 23.4% of Russians whose demise is caused by being splintered by ten o'clock. No wonder you couldn't give shit about Covid -19

Petri Dish

Rossco's Sober Wife said...

It would be OK if a manufacture put a car on the the road so unsafe it killed an extra 200 people a day.

Not that dissimilar to the Ford Pinto.

Andrei said...

"The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away."

This the Milts and Peri Dishes fail to grasp - they seem to think the death of a 90 year old demetia patent is some sort of an anomaly not a natural event

What is even weirder Milt who supports the killing of the unborn, people at the very beginning of their life denied the chance to live their lives in fullness but snuffed out - hes all for that. And Euthnasia too = hes all for giving granny the needle,

But suddenly on this thread he is full of angst there might not be enough ICU beds for 90 year old dementia patients who ar infected with covid-19

It is odd

What these dolts can't seem to grasp this virus is administering the coup de grace for people who have reached the end of their natural lifespan and who are about to die one way or another in any case

Psycho Milt said...

What is even weirder Milt who supports the killing of the unborn...

Untrue. I neither support nor oppose whatever decisions women make about their pregnancies, because it's none of my business. This quacking on about the killing of supposed "people" who don't actually exist while not giving a shit about real, actually-existing people gives my arse the ache.

And Euthnasia too = hes all for giving granny the needle...

I notice that the religious often spread this malicious lie about people who don't have a problem with voluntary euthanasia. I suspect they do that because they know they don't have a persuasive argument they could put up instead.

But suddenly on this thread he is full of angst there might not be enough ICU beds for 90 year old dementia patients who ar infected with covid-19

I feel no angst about it, I just point out that it's inevitable there's nowhere near enough respirators (or ICU beds) in the country to deal with a mass outbreak, that this would be true regardless of who was in government, and that it's not a reflection of some particular incompetence by this government. And when it does come to shortages, it's highly unlikely that 90-year-old dementia patients will be given priority.

This the Milts and Peri Dishes fail to grasp - they seem to think the death of a 90 year old demetia patent is some sort of an anomaly not a natural event

And this is something conservatives fail to grasp: people over 70, people with compromised immune systems due to cancer treatments or other illnesses, people with pre-existing conditions that make them more susceptible to this etc, have the same right to life as fit, healthy conservatives.

Anonymous said...

Is it 10'oclock already Andrei?

RosscoWlg said...

@Milt 6.37 " people with pre-existing conditions that make them more susceptible to this etc, have the same right to life as fit, healthy conservative"

Sorry Milt, no they don't, as you recall all health sector targets and KPI's were swept away by you Lefttards.

If you have cancer or other serious diseases in NZ in 2 short years all the health metrics turned south, chances of operation , chances of faster diagnoses.... etc

That's all fact!

RosscoWlg said...

Just seen a great little post from my friends in the Lebanon, cant post as cant copy and paste.

Its by the Lebanese Red Cross

Has a map of the hot spots
Has case numbers, deaths, recoveries

Then has a level of Preparedness
1.Trained EMTS
2.Volunteers trained with awareness
3.Stations equipped to respond

What a great information tool, level of infections balanced by what are we doing about it

Psycho Milt said...

You seem to operate an incorrect and self-serving definition of the word "fact."

If people report having met their KPI target numbers, the only "fact" is that they've found a way to report having met their target numbers. It is of course possible that they've met their target numbers by actually achieving the results the KPI is theoretically intended to measure, or it's possible they've come up with multiple ways of gaming the system to make the numbers match up. You're declaring a "fact" that is in reality a "possibility" - and, to anyone who understands systems thinking at least a little, not a very likely possibility at that.

RosscoWlg said...

Italy Quick Facts:

75 percent of individuals infected with the virus was over 50 years old

Only 1 in 4 who contacted the disease are in the 20 to 50 age group

RosscoWlg said...

Neatly dodged with the famous Milt sidestep...lets debate KPI's but not mention the fact that under Labour things like operations went south especially if you have cancer.

Or that they gave priority to a $3b election bribe but not health!

9 wasted years sitting on your arse back and front stabbing each other does that....

Snowflake said...

So Ross, my alcoholic buddy, is COVD-19 a public health emergency or not? You guys need to make up your minds, as Trump is panicking about it and flailing around like his re-election depends on him successfully blaming someone else for his incompetence. He thinks it’s bad. Do you agree with him or is he being hysterical?

RosscoWlg said...

Sigh.... so Milt's retired to the dugout and they have bought in the pinch hitter with a batting average of .001.

Over 55% of US citizens surveyed believe President Trump is doing a great job with response to the Virus.

Why don't you talk about the decline in health services under Labour:

Like;; How many people have been trained to provide EMT services in the crisis
How many school halls have been disinfected to act as emergency aid stations
How many beds are in the country to staff such emergency aid stations
In south Auckland how many buildings such as school halls have
been identified as emergency aid or recovery/isolation centers

Andrei said...

Rossco - My eldest daughter has a masters degree in Nursing and specializes in ED.

She funded her undergraduate degree by working as an aide in the high needs unit of a rest home and graduated with no outstanding student loan. Her masters was paid for by the Victorian Government and acheived while working full time in the ED department.

You might want question why she and none of my other kids have stayed in this country but chosen to make their lives elsewhere

Snowflake said...

Sorry, Ross, is it a public emergency like Trump is now shrieking or not? Simple question, my drunken chum.

Psycho Milt said...

Only 1 in 4 who contacted the disease are in the 20 to 50 age group

Repeating this as it doesn't seem to have sunk in: a small percentage of a very large number is still a large number.

Psycho Milt said...

Neatly dodged with the famous Milt sidestep...

If you can't grasp what the thing you're talking about actually means, that isn't my fault.