Friday, May 10, 2019

Possibly the most fucked-up Mothers' Day ad ever

Seen on stuff, a bunch of religious loons in Kaitaia have put up the following ad for their church:

One is left to ponder the prospects for their future Mothers' Day ads.  Candidates include:

"Thanks mum for letting your church push you into an early marriage."

"Thanks mum for forgetting your contraception that time."

"Thanks mum for marrying that dominating bully who made you have more kids than you wanted."

"Thanks mum for getting drunk and letting that guy fuck you without the condom."

"Thanks mum for going jogging where that rapist could see you."

Oh, the endless possibilities...


David said...

Their stupidity (and hatred of women and sex) is boundless.

Having a "discussion" with an anti-abortion loon last week. Loon asked me "How would you feel if your mother had aborted you?".

Let that sink in for a moment.

Andrei said...

Typical "progressive" outrage on display here.

When confronted with an undeniable truth, the only reason you are here to take umbrage at the message is that at least one responsible adult cared enough to nuture you and raised you to adulthood, the response is to call the people who pointed this out as "loons" - "loons" in fact quilified by the word "religious"

And then to divert into a series of anecdotes illustrating how the world not always perfect.

Confront the argument Milt, play the ball not the man.

Human biology is what it is my friend - women are designed to get pregnant either by God's plan or by natural selection or perhaps by a combination of both, choose your philosophy according to your whim but nthere is no getting around over or under that fact

And you my friend are the end result of generations of women conceiving, bearing and raising their offspring to adulthood, with or without the other party in that conception

David said...

women are designed to get pregnant is Andrei speak for women have no agency, women cannot decide if, when and how to become pregnant, it is their lot in life so "shut up bitch, get back in the kitchen and make me some pie."

Thankfully, the regressives are dying out and the progressives are making life better for everyone.

The Veteran said...

Hmmmmm ... questionable taste to be sure but then, isn't abortion per se questionable taste? One might argue it is the reaction of the well meaning to those at the other end of the debate who argue for abortion on demand.

It's a debate where the two extremes will agree to disagree. For them there is no middle ground. For what it's worth I think we have a law which is just about right.

Psycho Milt said...

Confront the argument Milt, play the ball not the man.

It's their implied argument that prompted the description "religious loons." It has nothing to do with Mothers' Day and goes like this:

Premise 1: you find your existence to be a good thing.

Premise 2: you wouldn't exist if you mother had terminated her pregnancy via abortion.

Conclusion: therefore, abortion is a bad thing.

The problems with this argument are:

1. Whether your existence is a good thing or not is subjective. There are some people in NZ about whom we could argue their existence is a very bad thing - Malcolm Rewa, for instance. By the sign's implied logic, that would make abortion a good thing.

2. More importantly, the odds against our particular genetic sequences coming into existence have a hell of a lot of zeros in them. For all intents and purposes, we might as well call the odds against each of us existing infinity to one. So, yes, we're only here because our mothers didn't abort us, but we're also only here because infinity other things that might have happened, didn't happen.

For example, I'm only here because the other millions of my dad's spermatazoa didn't get into the egg first. If one of them had, someone else would be here. I'm only here because mum didn't tell him she had a headache that night. I'm only here because they didn't decide to have kids earlier or later. I'm only here because she didn't say no to the marriage proposal, to the first date etc. That goes back in recursive fashion down millions of years until we're talking stuff like only being here because this particular micro-organism wasn't swallowed up by an amoeba.

The religious loons' implied argument says that those near-enough-infinity things that didn't happen are therefore bad things, because they would have prevented my existence. That's prima facie absurd, hence the description "loons."

But it's even worse than absurd, it's malicious. By that logic, it would have been a bad thing for my mother to decline sex with my father that time, and by extension any other time a new person could potentially have come into existence. It would have been a bad thing for her to turn down his marriage proposal, and so on. David is correct to attribute this thinking to hatred of women, because that's what it is.

Andrei said...

Your appeals to metaphysics just don't cut it Milt.

By definition your existence begins at conception, that being the point when the genetic material that defines what you will be comes together.

The fact that there is an astronomical number of potential human beings that never existed because a particualar sperm did not unite with a particualar ovum is neither here nor there.

Indeed that line of thinking makes you more worthy of preservation not less.

And clearly the fact the Catholic Church promotes abstinence or the rhythm method to avoid conception when another child is not desired throws your "religious loon" absurdity out the window with regard to your long winded waffle on the unlikliness of any specified individual being conceived .

The human species exists because human males have sex with human females which sometimes results in conception and when this occurs the fetus develops inside the woman until it can live viably outside her body after which it requires years of nuture before acheiving a fully independant life whereupon it may also embark upon the process of reproduction.

The fact that the scientific observation that it is the female that carries the child and the burdens associated with that is not "anti woman" - it is a stark reality

WE can and have gone around in circles arguing that the best way for society to organize itself is to encourage the male participant in this enterprise partner with the female and share the burden as much as is possible in raising their offspring - and this is what marriage is about.

But you lefty nongs have rewritten the narrative on that - starting with the idea that marriage is an institution oppresive to women and ending up with the bizarre absurdity that is "gay marriage".

But what amuses me is the faux outrage you lot display whenever someone puts forth an idea you cannot argue against

"It's really insensitive and just really judgmental," according to someone quoted in your link.

But is there anything illogically wrong in what has been said? Nope!

And you yourself use the term "religious loon" while avoiding arguing the premise as stated because you cannot

And because you cannot argue it you claim it is "offensive"

Noel said...

Psycho Milt said...

By definition your existence begins at conception, that being the point when the genetic material that defines what you will be comes together.

So what? You can declare that as an arbitrary cut-off point, after which all the things that could have but didn't happen are relevant, but nothing makes those things more relevant after that point than before it.

And even if we were to accept your assertion as having merit, something like 70% of conceptions don't survive past six weeks. So, if you lot had the courage of your convictions, identifying and mourning the deaths of all those "babies" would be your priority, because the number of abortions looks positively trivial by comparison.

Andrei said...

"...something like 70% of conceptions don't survive past six weeks."

This is claimed but there is no data to support it - There is no way to establish that fertilization has occurred for several weeks after it has and even then there is not 100% certainty....

But even if so - so what?

Conception is not arbitary Milt - it is the exact point at which a diploid organism comes into being - a diploid organism that will eventually be a a cryin', talkin', sleepin', walkin', livin' person

We know not all pregnancies come to term and we know not every baby born will live to see his or her first birthday, and that not every five year old will see six and so forth. That is our human condition

But few would accept the dismemberment of an inconvienant five year old - in fact the murder of juveniles fills us with dismay and horror.

But you still cannot argue coherently against the accuracy of the statement that has caused this faux outrage and are diverting

Psycho Milt said...

Well, no, I have argument against the factual accuracy of the statement - it's true, just as the possible future ads I posted are true for the people they apply to. However, in those cases the church would presumably be able to see that they would be grotesquely inappropriate messages to display for Mothers' Day. However, it obviously couldn't see how grotesquely inappropriate the message it did display is - that, and the reasons for it, are the subjects of my post.

Lord Egbut Nobacon said...

That's Ozark mountain territory up there boy.....should read cousin.

David said...

Andrei, make up your mind - are you talking religion or biology? If your views on abortion are informed by religion, then you have no place in women's health care. If informed by biology, then you would also know you have no place in women's health care.

Of all medical procedures, why is just this one subjected to so many restrictive rules? Because men don't get pregnant. It is the religious hatred of women and sex for pleasure that drives anti-abortion sentiment.

If it was about care for life, then all those protesting against abortion would put down their placards and fundraise for research into miscarriages and stillborns. But they won't, because that would be a positive good for society and these protesters are nothing more than "negative nellies", bluebonnets, people who have nothing better to do than try to tell everyone to live the same sad, miserable lives they do, terrified of future punishment from and arsehole god who was made up just to keep them terrified and the priests in unearned luxury.

If you are not a woman then your opinions on abortion are worth as much as a cup of cold sick.