Wednesday, September 20, 2017


Ok, we know you're  behind in the polls and running scared (and yes I said 5 days is a long time in politics) but Bill English is entirely right in calling you out on your promise to raise taxes and your attempt to label that as fake news just makes you look silly.

Fact ... Labour has promised to repeal National's effective tax cuts due to take effect from 1 April 2018.

Fact ... Those cuts have received legislative approval.   They are part of the law of the land.

Fact ... were Labour to repeal that legislation they would be legislating for tax increases.

Slam dunk.

The delicious irony in all of this is that should Labour win and to repeal the legislation they would be relying on the votes of the Greens and/or Winston First who both voted for the cuts.   Their gymnastic contortions would be a sight to behold ... voting against your own legislation ... mind boggling.

Sorry Socialist Cindy ... your faux outrage doesn't wash and that's why you're 9% behind in the polls, down 7% in the same number of days. 


Anonymous said...

Tax is what you pay for a just society, if you want to see really low taxes go live in Sth America. New Zealand is 20th out of 35 OECD countries in the world. It is almost the same as the UK whose infrastructure is also collapsing around them due to low investment. Taxes need to be raised in accordance with need and to sacrifice the future of the education, transport and health systems in what amounts to an election bribe is reprehensible.

If the National government said the it had made a calculating error in the the civil servants super annuation and need to raise taxes to pay the shortfall then I'm sure we would not see outrage, faux or otherwise, from certain quarters.

As I have mentioned before you can either afford a Mercedes and drive on bad roads and gridlock in a low tax country or afford a Holden and drive 500K in three and a half hours in any direction.

Lord Egbut

Anonymous said...

"Tax is what you pay for a just society"

Sure, it is what I pay for a functional society. But what about all the munters who I went to school with who arsed around until they could leave and drive a truck or get a job at the works. Now have four kids and a fat missus that I'm subsidising because I didn't.

Fairness is obviously a relative concept...maybe depending on how much effort you put in.

The Veteran said...

Egbut ... with respect ... this has nothing to do with the post. Taxcinda said Labour wouldn't raise income taxes. She lied. Repeal the legislation and you raise taxes ... now I know that's an inconvenient truth but it's the truth nevertheless.

Psycho Milt said...

I get why you'd write this post. Recognising that there's little it can offer as a recommendation for itself, National's concentrated on a smear campaign of lies for this election campaign. (Exhibit A: the made-up $18 cabbages. Exhibit B: the made-up $11.7 billion "hole" in Labour's budget.)

As things have gotten tighter the nearer to the election date, National's been forced to up the ante with its lying, going for the outright lie that Labour plans to increase income taxes. Having been called on that lie, they now need some defence-lawyer-level weaselry to try and maintain it - hence this claim:

Fact ... Labour has promised to repeal National's effective tax cuts due to take effect from 1 April 2018.

Fact ... Those cuts have received legislative approval. They are part of the law of the land.

Fact ... were Labour to repeal that legislation they would be legislating for tax increases.

It's very impressive weaselry, but nevertheless doesn't stand up.

Fact: no NZ government's decisions are binding on its successor.

Fact: a future government is under no obligation to implement decisions of its predecessor.

Fact: were a Labour government not to implement a tax-cut planned by its predecessor, that would not be a "tax increase."

Fact: if a Labour-led government takes charge from next week, no-one in NZ will pay more income tax than they're paying now.

Fact: the claims that Labour will increase income taxes are the desperate lies of people who know they have nothing else to offer.

The man who'll henceforth be known as Lyin' Bill has chosen a very poor thing to be remembered for. I expect Joyce put him up to it, but it was still his choice.

Anonymous said...

Anon 8:32

You cannot legislate for individual behaviour. What you are recommending is Neville Shute's multiple vote system. With modifications I suggest that it might work>>>>>

Lord Egbut

The Veteran said...

PM ... you miss the point old son. The tax cuts have been legislated for (and your Party voted for them). In order to reverse that Labour would need to change the law. In doing that they would be legislating for a tax increase ... pretty simple really.

Taxcinda sounds a tad hysterical like having been caught with her fingers in the cookie jar.

Anonymous said...

To The Veteran: You have eloquently and accurately defined the position re Labour and its determination to reverse the tax-cuts projected for April 2018. Thanks.


Paranormal said...

PM - you suggest National are dishonest about Liarbour's tax programme.

In reality Liarbour's programme is built on lie after lie. If you read their budget that has been allegedly rubber stamped by Berl you'd see it for your self.

It starts from the first assumption that growth would be double what we've been having for the past few years. That is just BS. A high spending high taxing government will never be able to double growth. Inflation yes, but not growth. It gets worse from there on as you dig deeper.

Joyce was right, Liarbours budget is a sham. Any right thinking accountant could never suggest it stacked up. How Berl can do that merely points where their politics lay.

Psycho Milt said...

In order to reverse that Labour would need to change the law. In doing that they would be legislating for a tax increase ... pretty simple really.

Calling the cancellation of a tax cut a "tax increase" is a straightforward, deliberate lie. Still, kudos to the masterly defence-lawyering by National's spin doctors who came up with this "yeah, but see, technically..." defence. No doubt the base will lap it up, remains to be seen how stupid the rest of the populace is.

Psycho Milt said...

Paranormal: it's a tough choice: do I believe the bulk of the country's economists, or Stephen Joyce and anonymous internet commenters? But yeah, after due deliberation, I'm going to go with the majority of the economists.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...


You should take no notice of bulky economists.

By your reasoning, it was Poland not Germany who started WW2.

Paranormal said...

PM, the third option, the one I suggested you take, is actually go and have a look for yourself.

But why would you want to seek out the truth when that could get in the way of a glorious victory on Saturday?

JC said...

Tax is, or should be, a group of people getting together to decide what activities would best be handled by a central authority. Defense and policing are the obvious ones along with perhaps civil defense, disease control and stuff like that.

Once you go beyond these sort of essentials and into the realm of things which require moral judgements or personal preferences you've gone too far and introduced inequities with selected groups.. the rationale for taxing is thus corrupted and the moral fibre of the country is at peril.

The vast majority of these lesser judgements and preferences should be the responsibility of individuals or at most decided at a local level where individuals are free to shift to another local community more in tune with the individual's preferences. This assumes that the central authority has no right to impose uniformity on local communities.. and neither should it.

Taxation in the West is corrupt, the people imposing the tax are corrupt and increasingly individuals and local groups are corrupted by the system.

If you want to know the true level of freedom of a society.. look at how it taxes itself and in the modern Western world you have to conclude that slavery is alive and well.


Anonymous said...

JC.....I see, what you are advocating is a system where we all pay according to our means and give it to a central authority to spend on health, education, justice, local authorities etc...

It'll never catch on.........

Troll Adolf DLT........If you are going to make sarcastic comments instead of contributing at least get it right. The root cause of the Second world war was French public opinion and weak politicians who hung on it's coat tails in order to get elected and did not have the courage avert the coming catastrophe. Remind you of anyone??

Lord Egbut Nobacon