Saturday, September 23, 2017

KUDOS TO CHINA IF CORRECT

The news that the Chinese Central Bank has directed all other Chinese Banks to cease their dealings with North Korea is encouraging ... if true.

That, combined with sanctions on the export of textiles and coal from the rogue state along with the drastic cutting of oil supplies, will impact hugely on the North Korean economy.

I say 'if true' because you never know ... reality has a way of 'trumping' words especially in the murky world of international banking.

But any move short of war to force North Korea to neuter its attempt to develop a fully operational nuclear strike force is to be applauded.

Both President Trump and  Kim Jong-Un are becoming prisoners of their own rhetoric.   The threat by North Korea's Foreign Minister, Ri Yong Ho that they are considering carrying out a nuclear bomb test in the Pacific, if carried through, would probably be the catalyst for military action.  

We live in very dangerous times remembering that New Zealand is still, technically, at war war with North Korea.

20 comments:

Andrei said...

And what military action would that be Veteran?

There is no military solution to North Korea - any attempt would result in the destruction of South Korea at a minimum and WW3 as a worst case scenario

We all know that the USA could reduce North Korea to a wasteland and we also all should realize there is no way the USA could conquer and occupy it

Impasse

Noel said...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/09/21/trump-says-the-u-s-will-impose-new-sanctions-on-north-korea/?utm_term=.9a7fad8b7385

“DeThomas warned, however, that even if sanctions are adopted and enforced, the way ahead will be difficult, because North Korea may feel it has little choice, given the president’s bellicosity at the United Nations, but to proceed with its weapons program despite the pain of an embargo.”

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Noel

Have you ever known the WAPO to have anything good to say about president Trump?

In your world, Hitler was right to invade Poland. It was that damned treaty with Britain which gave him no choice.

I look forward to the day when Kim Jong un loses face - literally.

And as for Andrei. Words fil me.

Gerald said...

Trump's always bleating about China and North Korea.
www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-20/north-korea-sanctions-claim-another-victim-china-s-rust-belt

Noel said...

God you're fill of shit.

The Veteran said...

Andrei ... not for me to say but it would be idle to think the US doesn't have a 'contingency plan' for this based (hopefully) on containment. For this to happen it would have to encompass a massive surgical strike designed to immobilize their military capability. That's a very big ask indeed and it would need the tacit endorsement of China. It encompasses huge risk.

Noel ... I don't disagree with your point. If the sanctions are effective then North Korea will react as anyone would with their back to the wall and no way forward ... lash out.

China remains the key to a diplomatic solution.

David said...

Veteran, China has a treaty obligation to come to the aid of Korea in the event of an attack.

It is easy to be blinded by the drumbeats from the Trumpkins, but the reality is far messier than they, or you, seem to believe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-North_Korean_Mutual_Aid_and_Cooperation_Friendship_Treaty

It was a treaty like this that led Britain to declare war on Germany after the invasion of Belgium in 1914, a treaty that was made in 1839.

This whole chest beating and dick wagging contest only began when Trump made threats against North korea's sovereignty. Once again, the US is the aggressor and we will all pay the price.

While trump indulges in childish name calling, Bernie Sanders appears to be the only adult in the room.

In 1953 the United States, on behalf of Western oil interests, supported the overthrow of Iran’s elected Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh, and the re-installation of the Shah of Iran, who led a corrupt, brutal and unpopular government. In 1979, the Shah was overthrown by revolutionaries led by Ayatollah Khomeini, and the Islamic Republic of Iran was created. What would Iran look like today if their democratic government had not been overthrown? What impact did that American-led coup have on the entire region? What consequences are we still living with today?
In 1973, the United States supported the coup against the democratically elected president of Chile Salvador Allende which was led by General Augusto Pinochet. The result was almost 20 years of authoritarian military rule and the disappearance and torture of thousands of Chileans – and the intensification of anti-Americanism in Latin America.
Elsewhere in Latin America, the logic of the Cold War led the United States to support murderous regimes in El Salvador and Guatemala, which resulted in brutal and long-lasting civil wars that killed hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children.
In Vietnam, based on a discredited “domino theory,” the United States replaced the French in intervening in a civil war, which resulted in the deaths of millions of Vietnamese in support of a corrupt, repressive South Vietnamese government. We must never forget that over 58,000 thousand Americans also died in that war.
More recently, in Iraq, based on a similarly mistaken analysis of the threat posed by Saddam Hussein’s regime, the United States invaded and occupied a country in the heart of the Middle East. In doing so, we upended the regional order of the Middle East and unleashed forces across the region and the world that we’ll be dealing with for decades to come.

While we rightly condemn Russian and Iranian support for Bashar al-Assad’s slaughter in Syria, the United States continues to support Saudi Arabia’s destructive intervention in Yemen, which has killed many thousands of civilians and created a humanitarian crisis in one of the region’s poorest countries. Such policies dramatically undermine America’s ability to advance a human rights agenda around the world, and empowers authoritarian leaders who insist that our support for those rights and values is not serious.


http://crooksandliars.com/2017/09/bernie-sanders-gives-major-foreign-policy

The Veteran said...

David ... North Korea has been making threats against the US since Adam was a Cowboy and that argument is going to get us nowhere. I certainly understand the risks and consequences of military action. Whatever, China is the key to a diplomatic solution but were DKR to carry out a hydrogen bomb test in the Pacific (where they would have to fly the rocket over Japan) then all bets are off.

David said...

David ... North Korea has been making threats against the US since Adam was a Cowboy ...

North Korea didn't exist when "Adam was a cowboy". it is one of the world's youngest nations.

Do you think the "threats" may be related to the US intervention in Korea that a) led to the overthrow of a popular government, b)led to the US attacking Korea and preventing its reunification under a national government, and c) its continual hostility and belligerence?

China is the key to a diplomatic solution ...

I don't know how you can say that with a straight face when there can be no diplomatic solution when the US President does not understand diplomacy, and uses the stage of The United Nations, a body created to prevent wars, to declare that he will obliterate Korea. Diplomacy is not a one sided game, that is bullying, belligerence, and ultimately, war.



The Veteran said...

David ... do you really believe your crap ... at the time of the North Korean invasion of the south the US military commitment to the South was limited to a small team of advisers. On 27 June 1959, two days after the invasion, the UN Security Council pursuant to the UN Charter authorised the dispatch of forces to help repel the invasion. 21 countries responded and provided military assistance. The rest is history.

Clearly you are an apologist for the rogue regime and sobeit. I made the point that point Trump and Kim are becoming prisoners of their own rhetoric and certainly the threat by the DKR to detonate a hydrogen bomb 'somewhere' in the Pacific would be a trip wire for subsequent military action.

Diplomacy is a two way street and right now the DKR is acting in defiance of a raft of UN resolutions in respect of its nuclear program. China is the key and should its patience with North Korea run out then watch this space.





Adolf Fiinkensein said...

In this case history did not repeat itself.

David was slain by Goliath.

Andrei said...

".. at the time of the North Korean invasion of the south the US military commitment to the South was limited to a small team of advisers. On 27 June 1959, two days after the invasion, the UN Security Council pursuant to the UN Charter authorised the dispatch of forces to help repel the invasion. 21 countries responded and provided military assistance. The rest is history. "

It is a bit more complex than that Veteran - in 1945 the USSR took the Japanese surrender in Korea and recognized an interim Government

MacArthur didn't like the interim Government and quickly recognized his own interim Government based in Seoul creating the division that exists to this day

In 1949 Mao gained control of China but the USA refused to recognize his Government but maintained the Nationalists in Formosa (Taiwan) were the legitimate Chinese Government

To complicate matters further China as a victor of WW2 had a permanent seat on the security council and the USSR wanted Mao's government to provide the UN ambassador for China but the USA blocked that and maintained Chiang Kai-Sheks ambassador held that seat

This also stalled the talks on reunifying Korea - the USSR walked out of the UN and the North attempted to reunify Korea militarily

The reason why the UN was able to get the resolution to go to war in Korea was the USSR wasn't there and the Nationalist Chinese went with the USA

None of this would have happened if the USA a faced the reality that Mao had won the Chinese civil war and recognized his Government - it took Nixon to do this or if MacArthur had dealt with the interim Government of Korea established after the Korean surrender

The Veteran said...

Andrei ... Doesn't change what I said. That the USSR walked out was their problem. The fact they fought on the side of the invaders sez much but doesn't change history. But actually 'they' are now a bit player in this, well behind the US, China, North and South Korea and Japan.

Andrei said...

They weren't invaders Veteran - it was their own country

And when the USA did invade approached the Yalu river the Chinese got involved and kicked American butt leading to the stalemate that has existed for longer than I have been alive

The Veteran said...

Andrei ... So the North owned the South then? Chinese and Russians ... the North was on its knees.

Andrei said...

Get real Veteran, Korea was one country in 1945

The Soviets took the Japanese surrender there and as such it would fall under the Soviet sphere of influence after the war

The Americans moved to block that by dividing it

The North tried to put it back together and the USA stopped them by going to war there. A war which ended in Stalemate and with the North Isolated for sixty five years as a punishment

It is all imperial shit - the American Empire seeking to control as much of the planet as it can. The Great game with the Korean people as pawns

Anonymous said...

Andrie...Why don't you try asking a North Korean how they feel about the end result...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_famine

http://apjjf.org/-Res.-Inst.-N-Kor-Society/2742/article.html

Oh sorry, forgot that the western media have a central nervous system and are controlled by the CIA.

Lord Egbut

Waikikamukau News said...

It is a rare delight to see such foolishness from someone other than The Doggeral from Akaroa or Lord Egbut's foe, Lawn Mower Man.

Come on Veteran, you usually do better than this, but David and Andrei have you in a bind.

"Andrei ... So the North owned the South then?"

No, there was one Korea, just freed from Japanese control. There was no justification to divide Korea and the Koreans were denied a say in their nation's future.

"Clearly you are an apologist for the rogue regime and sobeit."

I don't think that is his point at all, he is reinforcing the One Korea theory. Had the uStates and USSR kept out none of this would have happened.

You claim to be an historian, you claim military knowledge, but like so many of history's generals appear incapable of looking back beyond the last battle.

The First World War did not begin as a result of a shooting in 1914, the seeds were planted long before then, and North Korea's attempt to build a strong defense capability did not begin the day Kim3 ascended the royal throne.

"Diplomacy is a two way street and right now the DKR is acting in defiance of a raft of UN resolutions ..." so is that other rogue state with nuclear weapons, Israel, so where is the chest thumping and dick wagging contest there. You are silent on the horrors Israel inflicts on Palestinian civilians. Hippocracy much?

North Korea has never attacked another country, it hasn't destabilised the Middle East; it isn't engaged in genocide in Burma; unlike Pakistan (another nuclear armed nation) it does not give shelter and succor to terrorists; it is not threatening to totally obliterate another country; it isn't planning on overthrowing the government of Venezuela; it is not enforcing its politics on any other nation, and we are expected it is the biggest ever threat to world peace. Give me a break.

The Veteran said...

Waikikamukau News ... the stupidity of your post is encompassed in your statement 'North Korea has never attacked another country' ... nuff said.

Waikikamukau News said...

Veteran, you cling to the fiction that there were two Koreas. That is the case now, but not when the North attempted to reunite the nation as one. The two Koreas were an artificial construct without the consent of the Korean people.

A bit like the fiction of two Vietnams that I understand you helped perpetuate. Look how well the Vietnamese are doing now that they kicked out the imperialist invaders and reunited their nation.

However, for the sake of the argument, let's allow that there was an invasion of the South by the North, the rest of my point stands.

North Korea hasn't destabilised the Middle East; it isn't engaged in genocide in Burma; unlike Pakistan (another nuclear armed nation) it does not give shelter and succor to terrorists; it is not threatening to totally obliterate another country; it isn't planning on overthrowing the government of Venezuela; it is not enforcing its politics on any other nation, and we are expected it is the biggest ever threat to world peace. Give me a break.

I get that the military mindset doesn't really allow for consent and dissent. Where would you have stood if West Germany had attempted a reunification with the East and tried to kick out the Russians?