Sunday, November 17, 2019


I'm not Jewish but I make no secret of my support for the Jewish State nor my extreme distaste for antisemitism in all its forms.   The August edition of North &; South has an interesting article by Juliet Moses on 'Being Jewish in New Zealand'.

I was particularly attracted to her comments where she discusses antisemitism in New Zealand.   To quote ....

Antisemitism is a light sleeper' and It mutates over time.   Today, we face it, not only from the extreme right, such as the Holocoust denial that social media is awash in, or the attack on a Pittsburgh synagogue in October of last year where 11 Jews were murdered, or more recently the Poway, Californian synagogue attack, leaving another Jew murdered.   We face it from Islamists who have targeted and murdered Jews in France.

But also from the extreme left.   This new form of antisemitism takes cover in the demonisation and delegitimisation of Israel.   To be sure, criticism of of Israeli policies and actions is not antisemitic.   Israel should be subject to the same scrutiny and standards as every other country.   However, it is not mere criticism to erase Jewish people-hood and history in Israel or to accuse Jews of dual loyalty, or to apply the same dehumanising tropes and conspiracy theories to the Jewish state or to Zionists that were once applied to Jews - so that the Jewish state and its supporters, rather than individual Jews, are treated as being an uniquely evil controlling force, the source of all ills, whose elimination is necessary to save humanity ... end quote.

Pretty much sums up where I'm at.


Andrei said...

Oh my goodness Holocaust denial is like flat earthism or Moon landing denial its lunatic fringe stuff not antisemitism.

Anti Christian sentiment is far more widespread than anti semitism - just look at what happened to Israel Falou...

The Holocaust is one of, but only one of, the great horrors of human history but Zionists have milked it for all its worth. And in particular to shut down criticism of Israel.

If someone desecrates a Jewish headstone or spray paints a swastika on a Synagogue wall in this country it makes headline news - the last time the later occurred was years ago and the culprits hunted down and given a year in prison for their transgressions. A year in prison is a fairly hefty tariff for graffiti is it not?

You would have to search really hard to find examples of overt anti semiticism in this country - anti Muslim sentiment is far more common while it is often open season on Christians.

Max Ritchie said...

Agree, Veteran. Conflating Netanyahu's self-preservation actions, which are open to criticism, not least by half or more of Israel's voters, with the country as a whole is just a cover for anti Semitism. And let's not forget the multitude of offers by Israel to reach a fair solution rejected by the PLO which never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

Andrei said...

What is a "fair solution" Max Ritchie?

What might seem like a "fair solution" to you from the comfortable environs of New Zealand might not seem so "fair" to people displaced from their homes and farms under its terms.

When it comes down to it Israel is an ethno state created by the victors of WW2 to atone for the Holocaust without real consultation with the residents of the lands concerned. And it has expanded well beyond the borders granted to it at formation in 1948.

Anonymous said...

The history of Israel is much older than 1948 and goes back to pre biblical times with King Soloman.


Roj Blake said...

The sky is darkening, there is thunder ahead, lightning behind. I find myself in agreement with Andrei.

Antisemitism is such an amorphous concept, it can be used to cover anything from the Shoa to deciding not to perform in Israel. To declare all Jews as criminals, or to say that "Bibi" is a war criminal who should be dragged in chains to The Hague are both, apparently, antisemitic statements.

Our papers run daily stories on how Corbyn is antisemitic because he does not fall for the Religious Reich's "Israel good, Arabs bad" bullshit. He calls out Israel's atrocities against the Palestinian people. He supports the right of Palestinians to freedom and self-determination.

Andrei is correct. Israel was a sop to salve the conscience of Europe. The Palestinians have been made to pay for the sins of the Germans. There can be no peace in the Middle East as long as Israel continues to expand, as long as it condemns Palestinians to live in an ever decreasing landscape.

While Germany was annihilating Jews, while the USA and Australia turned back shiploads of Jewish refugees, Arabs were aiding Jews avoid Nazi death squads. What fractured the relationship? In a word - Israel.

Andrei said...

The history of Greece is far older than 1948 too, Odddball, and under the logic you appear to be invoking the ancient city of Constantinople, today Istanbul in Turkey, should be its capital and it should hold its rightful palce as center of the Christian world.

Warsaw was a Russian city in 1914 - should it be returned to the Russian Federation?

Roj Blake said...

The history of Israel is much older than 1948 and goes back to pre-biblical times with King Soloman.


That "history" includes a lot of stuff you might want to think carefully about.

Like that land where "Israel" was in "King Solomon's" time was stolen from its original inhabitants. Funny how when God went "POOF!" and brought the world into existence, he forgot to set aside land for his "chosen people". Who would have thought God could be so careless?

According to Biblical accounts, the Jews originated in Egypt. Africa, not the Middle East, is their home.

But, even if we accept that the land that is now Israel once belonged to the Jews, they abandoned it, they had no country* for 2000 years. Makes their supposed "connection" pretty tenuous, doncha think?

Max Ritchie said...


A fair solution might be (from the environment of the time I was offered a job in the recon battalion of an Israeli armoured division - I've done my share of discomfort, possibly yours too) secure borders for Israel, recognition of its right to exist, a viable Palestinian state - something along those lines. Sadly great wrongs were done to Palestinians in 1948 but it's not a simple matter. Atrocities by both sides. Rabin or someone similar might have achieved a solution. Do you reject the right to exist?

Anonymous said...

Man, some people get upset don't they.
I've read about the history of the area some time ago, therefore, I don't need to 'read carefully'.
There aren't any nice clear solutions, meanwhile, Israel is been targeted yet again by those 'freedom fighters' (probably mostly ex refugee descendants from the black September event).
Are you Ok with the indiscriminate of targeting of civilians?

Anonymous said...

Oops, forgot to add 'Oddball'

PS, if your looking for a straw man to suit a preconceived narrative so you get all angry about something, your going to be disappointed.


Andrei said...

Israel exists, Max Ritchie, regardless of what we may feel about the history of its formation.

I wasn't born when the modern state of Israel was formed

Over eight million people are citizens of Israel - if it ceased to exist where would they go?

I wasn't born when the modern state of Israel was formed and nor were the majority of her present citizens, none of us had a say in the matter and we cannot undo mistakes made in the past - so no I do not reject the "right to exist"

But how do you create a viable Palestian State? Most of Palestinian Terrirory is landlocked apart from the tiny Gaza Strip from which it is seperated. Even the original partition plan had the proposed Palestinian State as three enclaves within israel - one of which has completely disappeared and the other two are much smaller than envisioned as Israel has gobbled up land - in fact the Gaza strip. the only coastal region in Palestinian territory is a mere 40 kilometers long and 6 to 12 Kms wide with nearly 2 million souls crammed within it. If you were forced to live there you might be fairly pissed off too.

Lets get real here - the American Jewish lobby has ensured from the get go that Israel has the best and most modern weapons, weapons denied Israel's neighbours which has allowed Israel to take what it wants and it has - just don't try and tell me the Palestian people are being unreasonable when they have been dealt a shitty hand and reject shitty peace proposals that will marginilize them even further.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...


Take the log out of your eye.

The Israelis and the Egyptians used exactly the same type of fighter aircraft during the six day war. The Israelis destroyed the Egyptians because their pilots were ten times better.

Nothing at all to do with the American Jewish lobby.

Tom Hunter said...

...the American Jewish lobby has ensured from the get go that Israel has the best and most modern weapons,

That's not historically accurate. In fact Israel survived it's first three wars with little or no help from the USA. The wars of 1948, 1956 and 1967 were fought with non-US equipment, starting with purloined ex-WWII fighter planes for the 1948 war (including ex Messerschmitt 109), and ending with French and British fighter planes like Mirages and Hawker Hunters in the 1967 conflict. Similarly with things like the Centurion tanks, although they were able to get a few castoff American tanks from other nations.

After The Six Day War France and other nations decided to placate the oil-owning Arab nations by not selling Israel the equipment it needed.

Even then, it was not until the Yom Kippur War of 1973 that the US, driven primarily by the great distruster of Jews, Rochard Nixon, finally stepped in to supply Israel with what it needed to survive. Even then it was a last-gasp throw of the dice as Israel had lost so many tanks and planes they were, for once, looking at defeat.

So much for the theory of the powerful US Jewish lobby. It was basically politically useless in getting Israel the weapons it needed from 1948 to 1973, yet somehow it's been miraculously powerful since then even as American Jews increasingly support anti-Israeli politics inside the Democrat Party.

All of which is ironic considering that the US Jewish lobby has long been a favourite punching bag of the small gagle of Far Right conspiracy theorists. As Juliet Moses points out, adding to the irony is that they have been steadily joined in this belief (and other beliefs about Jews and Israel) by elements of the Far Left, of which the likes of Ocasio-Cortez in the US and Corbyn in Britain are simply the leading examples.

Max Ritchie said...

Andrei Anonymous

I see others have corrected your misconceptions. That you were not born when Israel was created might be the - actually your - problem. You can't take the present and say that's the story - it is long and complicated with faults on every side. Possibly starting with the Mufti, although most would say Balfour. Somewhere, with goodwill, there is a solution. It will have to include Israel's right to exist and be acceptable to the displaced. It might be Jordan.

Tom Hunter said...


To be fair Max, Andrei is as real as any person gets on blogsites, even if does not use a registered identify here. I have no idea who he is, but that's likely his real name and the same poster has been making the same arguments for years now across a number of NZ blogs, using the same voice.

Adolf, Psycho Milt, I and others are most familiar with Andrei from years of Kiwiblog comments and debates.

It's for that reason that Psycho and I deleted one commentator here a few months ago when he tried to purloin the name "Andrei".

To add to the certainty that he's a singular, real person, is the fact that he's had a slow change of heart on a number of issues over the years, including Israel. Over a decade ago he was a strong supporter of Bush 43 and US actions in Afghanistan and Iraq in the wake of the 9/11 attacks.

Max Ritchie said...

Thanks Tom

I gave him a surname because he used mine. Childish, I know, but there are seven ages of man. If one was born before Israel then the 7th is either here or approaching.

The Realist said...

Holocaust denial is not anti-Semitic, is not lunatic fringe dialogue, and is a legitimate historic enquiry. Whether or not it is correct is another matter but there is a unfortunate tendency for the traditionalists to scream their arguments at the other side

Tom Hunter said...

Holocaust research that investigates how and why several million Jews were wiped out in Europe during WWII is most certainly legtimate historic enquiry and not anti-Semitic, lunatic-fringe stuff.

However, "research" attempts to do the following:

- that tries to downplay the numbers of Jews killed, usually by several million ("Census details are not accurate")

- that provides non-murderous, "negligent" reasons for their deaths (" Typhus in the camps" being a favourite);

- that excuses the politics behind it as being nothing to do with traditional, age-old Jew-hatred in Europe, but merely a by-product of war;

- that excuses the Nazis in particular as the primary driver of it by whipping up that hatred to fever-pitch and then providing the military and police organisation needed to round-up Jews and kill them.

- that downplays the eye-witness testimony of German officers and privates who saw mass killing of Jews or actually participated in it.

- that downplays or ignores the eye-witness testimony of countless numbers of Eastern Europeans who participated in the roundups and killings, whether directly or simply by providing food and shelter for the squads and who were made vividly aware of what was going on due to all the talk and boasting of the squads themselves.

- that downplays the eyewitness testimony of those Jews who survived the camps ("A witness talked of 'Rollercoasters into the ovens' for goodness sake" - that's a fave)

- that focuses entirely on technical issues with gas chambers and ovens, as if the basic operations of shooting and mass graves with the Einsatzgruppen and local allies in Eastern Europe were not a genocide in and of itself.

All that sort of research is definitely "lunatic fringe dialogue" and not "legitimate historic enquiry" - and has been proved to be so many times, including in courts where lawsuits were brought by Jew-Haters affronted that they weren't being treated as genuine, devoted servants of historic enquiry.

And it is most definitely anti-semitic - or simple Jew-Hatred as I prefer to call it - in that it has always been driven by people who at a minimum don't like Jews, or occasionally unleash real hatred about them and regularly spout all of the old traditional Jew hatreds about money, power, global control and so forth, which is their actual motivation.

But hey - if you've got some websites that you'd like to link to, I'm sure readers will be intrigued to see examples of historic enquiry about the Holocaust that avoids the items I've listed.

The Realist said...

No web-sites Tom
Try Thomas Dalton "Debating the Holocaust" Castle Hill 2017
My understanding is Dr Dalton is a well-known commentator on the issue, and although he claims to be neutral on the issue his tone suggests not, somewhat.
However his work cannot simply be dismissed and displays a decent standard of scholarship.

Max Ritchie said...

The publisher of Dalton's (pen name, BTW) books leans towards the denial side. In fact if you look at the titles the lean is precipitous. Not sure I'd want to quote but I'd better do some reading first. While holding nose possibly.

The Realist said...

Yes it is a pen name which he admits
I'm not certain he's American either.
If you think you have to hold your nose I shouldn't bother reading the book.

Max Ritchie said...


Nose holding is based on the publisher's list, which lists Dalton as a prof at an American university. Of course he might be from somewhere else. He certainly lives in America.

Tom Hunter said...

No website? You sure....

Ok. Let's have a shufti.....

Curent Publications:
- some translations of Mein Kampf
- the book you mentioned.
- Hitler on The Jews!!!!
- Goebbels on the Jews!!!!

My spidey senses are tingling!

Ooo - here's one...

- The Jews and Their Lies! Although that looks like a translation of Martin Luther's stuff.

Wait! Here we go...
- The Jewish Hand in the World Wars

Hmmm - have to go to Amazon... Back shortly

Tom Hunter said...

Right! Here we go....

Let's see what the summary is:

For many centuries, Jews have had a negative reputation in many countries and among large parts of the population. The reasons given for this are plentiful, ranging from their anti-Christian theology and social exclusivity to arrogance, conceit, greed and maliciousness. Their perceived belli-gerence and animosity have been considered legendary.

Woah. I'll bet that's written in the calm objective hand I expect from every PhD in Philosophy, so you know he's going to be all bakanced and objective when it comes to his main thesis, having lined up a few "key" factors.

But less well known is their involvement in war-hence the reason for this book.

Is it really less well-known? Even after a casual scan of the Bible, or almost any Greek or Roman historian? Anyway, moving on...

When we examine the causal factors for war, and when we look at its primary beneficiaries, we repeatedly find a prominent Jewish presence. Throughout history, Jews have played an exceptionally active role in promoting and inciting war. With their long-notorious influence in government, we find recurrent instances of Jews promoting hardline stances, being uncompromising, and actively inciting people to hatred. Jewish misanthropy, rooted in Old Testament mandates, and combined with a ruthless materialism, has led them, time and again, to instigate warfare if it served their larger interests. This fact explains much about the present-day world.

In this book, Thomas Dalton examines in detail the Jewish hand in the two world wars. Along the way, he dissects Jewish motives and Jewish strategies for maximizing gain amidst warfare, reaching back centuries. He concludes with a brief analysis of more recent wars, and with a look to the future.


Steppen Wolf said...

Well done Tom, you can read an Amazon blurb. Maybe next year you'll be up to reading a whole book without moving your lips.

With their long-notorious influence in government, we find recurrent instances of Jews promoting hardline stances, being uncompromising, and actively inciting people to hatred.

This is most assuredly not all Jews, but it certainly is a good description of more recent Israeli Govt policies. That description also applies quite well to the thugs of both the Irgun and Stern terrorist groups.

Again, not all Jews are responsible, but I am quite sure that the families of the 34 people killed when Israeli jets twice attacked the USS Liberty feel that way. I'd call that hard-line and uncompromising, attacking a non-combatant's vessel in International Waters.

Now, any chance you might go back to the subject at hand - antisemitism in NEW ZEALAND. If you try hard enough, you can probably find a singer to attack for daring to stand out from the herd.

Tom Hunter said...

Maybe next year you'll be up to reading a whole book without moving your lips.

Possibly, but I'll first look to see what your lips can do while sealed to Yasser Arafat's mummified penis.

Steppen Wolf said...

So, tell me, dear Tommy Bhoy, just what as " Yasser Arafat's mummified penis" got to do with the topic at hand, antisemitism in NEW ZEALAND? Nothing at all, of course, this is just you playing the only game you know - Pigeon Chess.

Now, kindly piss off, or, as my Italian friends would say Vai a scopare tua suocera.

The Realist said...

Whoa guys!
People screaming arguments at each other is not helping. This is not on, and totally undignified.
Tom: I have never visited Dalton's web-site and was unaware one existed. Your firehose approach though has confirmed what I said in the beginning - the man may not be as neutral as he claimed.
What I was hoping for was an intelligent discussion. Pity.
I don't know whether Dalton is correct or not. What I do know is that ad hominem insults are irrelevant. Dalton's work needs to be evaluated by the application of intellectual rigour. First of all you need to read the book.

Tom Hunter said...


I'm going to decline to read the book for three reasons.

First, because its summary tells me that it's hitting many of the same "red flags" I noted about holocaust denial. Not a surprise to me: seen it before.

Secondly because his other books indicate that he his motivations do not arise from intellectual curiosity but from the same old hangups about Jews that classic Jew Haters have.

Third, because I've been reading those same points made by the likes of David Irving and others for thirty years now, and their motivations certainly were to deny that the Holocaust happened. There may be slight possiblty that "Dalton" is bringing new stuff to the table, but given how thoroughly the mountains of documentaion have been gone over in cases such as Irving vs. Penguin Books, I doubt he has anything new.

However, if you're keen on it, you read it and let us know what his main arguments are re numbers of Jews killed and other aspects of the Holocaust.

I am heated about this, because I've got tired of seeing this crap rise up again and again in my lifetime, and every time I've dug into it I've found all the same non-factual, argumentative rubbish on each point and the same motivations, which is basically to stick it to the Jewish peoples.

Having done this multiple times before over the last four decades - always because of some seemingly detached offer or suggestion to read some "reasonable, professional intellectual alternative arguments on the Holocaust" I just can't be bothered any longer.

Steppen Wolf said...

More Pigeon Chess, Tommy Bhoy.

Why are you incapable of commenting on the OP?

Is it because it doesn't suit your narrative, which appears to be "Antisemitism is any criticism of Israel, its government, and its continual attacks on Palestinians? You seem to think that suggesting Israel is the author of its own problems by continually expanding "settlements" is Antisemitic.

Or is it You are actually the antisemite among us? As any good ethnographer or linguist will tell you most Palestinians are Semites, unlike the Jews who migrated from Russia and Europe to Israel, who are NOT Semites.

Tom Hunter said...

Why are you incapable of commenting on the OP?

First, because it said "New Zealand" and I'm not too interested in what happens here. Second, because I wanted to correct Andrei's point and address the nonsense put forward by this Dalton character.

But as it happens I think it's quite appropriate to criticise Israel for things like its West Bank settlement policy without being an anti-semite and that it's a cheap effort at shutting down the debate for Israelis and their supporters to make that accusation of such critics.

That can be true at the same time that it's true that there will be Jew-Haters in that crowd who are simply using the Settlement issue as yet another club to beat Jews with. Based on what I've seen of his writings I would bet dollars to donuts that Dalton would be one such person.

And as an example of how easily it can happen that you end up on the same side as Jew Haters, there's your comment:

...unlike the Jews who migrated from Russia and Europe to Israel, who are NOT Semites.

Now that has long been a classic argument from Holocaust-denying Jew Haters, who make strained efforts to seperate the "real" Jews from the fake Ashkenazi ones who cause all the problems around the world.

And given that classic piece of propaganda has gradually become a Left-Wing talking point, as you just demonstrated, perhaps you'd like to address the problems the Left is having in Europe and the US in sidling up to Muslim immigrants for their votes without buying into the traditional anti-Jewish baggage those groups often bring with them.

If we're going to get into some childish game of pointing fingers about people refusing to address what you think needs to be addressed in the OP, why don't you address that Left-WIng issue, which was also pointed out in the OP and which you've ignored.

Although I'd guess that you'll simply deny it, given the saintliness of the Left in your eyes. You'd much rather talk about the re-emergence of traditional Jew hatred in parts of the European Right.

Steppen Wolf said...

First, because it said "New Zealand" and I'm not too interested in what happens here.

And yet, here you are, playing Pigeon Chess all over the Veteran's post. You can't help yourself, can you? YOU are THE AUTHOUR of this blog, as you keep reminding us.

Now that has long been a classic argument from Holocaust-denying Jew Haters, who make strained efforts to seperate the "real" Jews from the fake Ashkenazi ones who cause all the problems around the world.

No, that is your interpretation, because anything that upsets your Israel Good, Palestinians Bad narrative is more than you can stomach.

It was a simple statement of defining terminology. Semite is not a race, a religion, or a nationality. It is a grouping of people by language. Not all, but most Palestinians, are, by definition, Semitic as they speak one of two Semitic languages, some even speak a third, Hebrew.

The Jews of Europe are still Jews, but they are not, by definition, Semites, as their native language is Yiddish, a Germanic language. I wonder if Hitler knew that?

So, before one can make a claim of antisemitism, one needs to understand the terms and definitions.

Now, I know you will find this hard to understand, Wee Tommy Bhoy, but true antisemitism is not a failing of left or right, it is a human failing. There are a great many people on The Right (David Irving, Thomas Dalton, your own Kyle Chapman) who fall into the category of blaming "The Jews" for everything from not being able to get a job to not being able to get rich. There are a few on the Left who would agree with them. Then, there are many on the Left who are accused of antisemitism, not because they hold the same views as those mentioned above, but because they support the right of the Palestinian people to a homeland and self-determination. And as long as Israel continues its policy of Lebensraum, the Palestinians get shafted again and again and I will be called "antisemitic" for pointing that out.

Max Ritchie said...

Steppen You're on a hiding to nothing with that argument. Semite by language is not really used anymore other than by linguistic academics. And the accepted use of anti Semitic is vs Jews. Research shows that the Ashkenazi are predominantly of Middle Eastern descent, particularly through the male side. 70:30. Some conversions, sure, but the adoption of Yiddish came after they left Israel and Judah. And of course it includes some Hebrew in the mix. You have a valid argument in some respects but not in this one.

Roj Blake said...

Boy o Boy, knew I should have one fewer egg nog last night. Here I am, unable to sleep so log on to the Interwebbies and looks like I missed all the fun while partying.


Steppen, I wish I'd thought of it, but you're right - Pigeon Chess is the basis almost every one of "Tom Hunter's" responses.

Max, not sure if you are Jewish or not, but my understanding is that Jewishness is Matrilineal. And Jewishness is not related to ethnicity, there many ethnicities among Jews, mostly from migration, intermarriage, etc.

Well, a couple more Moggadon and back to bed. Can't wait for "Tom Hunter's" next strutting over the chess board.

Tom Hunter said...

@Roj & Steppen

Given the inadequacy of your debating skills in numerous areas I'm glad you two have at least found a new variation of "because reasons and shutup".

The Jews of Europe are still Jews, but they are not, by definition, Semites, as their native language is Yiddish,

Was. The Yiddish language is dying out even in Israel, which is not surprising since so many Jewish speakers were killed in Europe and those survivors who came to Israel moved to Hebrew as fast as they could, given the European attachments of the old language.

So yeah - nah. You're just employing some rather poor sophistry to try and escape from the negative charge of being called an anti-semite when your criticism of Israel trends into those classic areas of anti-semitism - starting with that split of good vs. bad Jews. And of course you're part of the Left that has fallen into that world from the angle of "European" Jews, to which you can then attach all the trendy Left arguments around colonialism and so forth. Hell, I've seen idiots refer to "White Jews", as well as saying that they're actually "Pro-Semite" because of their support for Palestinians.

And in any case, I prefer the term Jew-Hater.

... but true antisemitism is not a failing of left or right...
Almost there.

your own Kyle Chapman) who fall into the category of blaming "The Jews" for everything from not being able to get a job to not being able to get rich. There are a few on the Left who would agree with them.

Awwww - so close, but you can never help yourself.

You hang on to that thought since it comforts you - but "your own" Linda Sarsour and Louis Farrakhan spew Jew hatred that is indistinguishable from that of Kyle Chapman and company. Or since those names are US, the more appropriate one for them would be David Duke, who is thrilled with Sarsour and Farrakhan, as well as the latest addition of Ilhan Omar.

What's really telling is how the GOP has told Duke to fuck off for years so that he has zero influence on them - while countless Democrats have snuggled up to Farrakhan and company for votes from the Black and Muslim communities, and do so to this day.

But hey - maybe they're really "Pro-Semite" like you.

Still Jew-Haters though - to their core.

Steppen Wolf said...

Clutching at straws, Tommy Bhoy, clutching at straws.

IIRC Louis Farrakhan has been criticised by people from all over the place, left, right, gay, straight, even outright racists like Trump. Who the fuck is Linda Sarsour, and why should I care. She doesn't affect me or mine. OK, I googled her, still don't care, not my cup of tea.

Ah, you say, but Ilhan Omar. Yeah, what about her? Apparently, she said something someone decided was anti-semitic 8 fucking years ago. Something for which she apologised (Yeah, grab a dictionary and look it up, I know it ain't in your vocabulary).

She has been attacked again lately as an antisemite for pointing out the disproportionate influence Israel (not Jews, Israel) has on US governments.

26 US States currently require government employees and contractors to swear a loyalty oath, not to the State, not to the Nation, but to a foreign government. No loyalty oath, no job. Existing employees can be sacked if they refuse to sign up to the Israel Agenda. Omar attacked that and is labelled an antisemite. Yes, for standing up for American citizens to uphold American values, she is labelled somehow anti-American because she doesn't swear fealty to Israel.

Now that is truly fucked up, and if that makes me an antisemite too, then fine, because I will always stand for personal freedom and liberty.

And aren't you the bloke who refused point blank to condemn those who made death threats against an 87-year old holocaust survivor? Seems there is no low too low for you.

Max Ritchie said...

Amazing. I doubt such a requirement will make past the Supreme Court but in the meantime it stands. California and New York are two of the 26. NY I can understand, just (political reality) but CA! Really? Hypocrisy alive and well in the People's Republic.

Not quite loyalty to Israel, however. It's re economic harm and the boycott. Signers are not swearing allegiance to Israel, just agreeing not to harm it economically. And the number soon to ncrease.

Steppen Wolf said...

In the meantime, it not only stands, it means people are losing their jobs for exercising their First Amendment rights. It's right there, in the constitution Republicans venerate while constantly finding ways to tear it apart.

Not quite loyalty to Israel, however. It's re economic harm and the boycott.

Yep, good ole "Mercans are allowed to boycott any country or company they like, as long as it isn't Israel or Israeli. Thankfully we have Sodaking in Oz so I don't have to buy the Israeli Sodastream supplies.

paul scott said...

Steppen Wolff I don't know how many people you have threatened, or continue to threaten, but you are a psychopath. The threats you made against me because of something in your sad bleak mind are criminal. It is only a matter of time before we can backtrack and through records and pick you up. Ther is something about you which makes you think you are above the law, and that in itself is interesting, very interesting. Paul Scott

Steppen Wolf said...

Voices in your head getting louder? A sign of a guilty conscience. Margaret would have been 17 next week.

Steppen Wolf said...

Oh, and Judith would have been 64 yesterday. Remember Judith?

The Veteran said...

Paul vs Stephen ... WTF is going on here? Judith? Margaret?

Tom Hunter said...

@ Veteran

There's a very strange history of attacks between these two here on NM, plus similar fights between Scott and other people lile "Steppen" on other blogs, mainly around Scott's self-admitted history of drinking and his life in Thailand.

Both have had their comments deleted before by the likes of me and Psycho Milt when it got too crazy and it looks like it will have to happen again.

Pelican Pete said...

Scott also posted that "David" took his own life. Wondering outloud how he knew that. Reading between the lines here and at CR I believe his more than simple debauchery in Thailand

Steppen Wolf said...

Paul knows who Margaret and Judith were, and he also knows the guilt that he must bear for the rest of his life. Every once in awhile his conscience, aka THe Voices In His Head, stir up and he lashes out at me and others he feels are responsible for his own, very deliberate and considered actions.

I have tried to help him in the past, but no more, he is beyond redemption.

paul scott said...

Yes I was vile about David. He was one of the people who hated me so much, when he went off line and you are in your seventies you may have died. This entire web site is evil as far as I am concerned, David went out of his way to be utterly vile, and he got it back. I have no idea who he is or anything other than his presence here. He was the reason I gave up No Minister as a bad place, which it is. I know I made offhand comments about him and too bad, he was a vicious man toward me, Egg less so.
You people actually allow some psychopath who started threatening my life out of the blue last year; It was at a time your site was at it's most vicious No Minister.
All I know is that Steppen Wolf threatened me for being what he called a fascist and a racist and a paedophile. That he was going to rid the world of people like me.
Because he is senior in the Police force he thinks he can kill people if he feels like it, If you idiots could see my small middle-class life in Thailand with a very simple ordinary family member you would be bored stiff. my web sites are just photos I take of places and people who are friends and family.
This site now carries life threats openly.
Grave dodger, Veteran, Adolf. what the fuck is the matter with you allowing this violent and rotten Policeman here. I can hardly believe what you have become. . Paul Scott