Friday, August 23, 2019

Within classrooms today

I filched the following from the Kiwiblog General Debate this morning because I think it deserves as much coverage as possible. I hope the poster and DPF do not mind.


I’m a teacher and have been for many years. Generally, I enjoy my work, though, like most occupations, there are occasional days when I wonder why I am still teaching.

Yesterday was one such day.

Barely five minutes into the first class of the day, I asked an 11-year old boy ‘How are you this morning?’ He replied, ‘F*** off’. On leaving the classroom at my request and according to the school procedures, he added ‘F*** you’.

Later in the day, when I asked another class why do we speak English in New Zealand when England is on the other side of the world, I was told by one (Pakeha) girl, ‘because the English killed all the Maori when they came here’. When I expressed some doubt about that suggestion, she said, ‘OK, not all of them – most of them’. She added that she’d been told this in a Social Studies lesson.

And in the last class of the day, another girl, about 13 years old, said that she disagreed that it was right for the Spanish language to be gendered. That Spanish nouns and adjectives are masculine or feminine, she didn’t think was right (I assume in a moral sense). Her reasoning was that a person’s gender ‘is a matter of opinion’. I did not ask her where she got that idea from.

A remarkable day at what used to be called ‘the chalkface’.

What’s gone wrong? Have I missed something?


Roj Blake said...

What’s gone wrong? Have I missed something?

Yes, you missed what are called "teachable moments"; you could have engaged with the students and explained the historical reasons for the use of English and why the Romance Languages all have gendered nouns. Instead, you chose to withdraw and complain.

I suggest you would be better suited to bus conducting.

pdm said...

Harsh Roj -there is nothing that suggests `kiwitoffee' did not engage after the inital exchanges in each case.

Johno said...

Welcome to the modern world where adults are treated like children and children are treated like adults. Where teenagers and Hollywood celebrities are held up as beacons of scientific and social knowledge and wisdom.

Psycho Milt said...

She added that she’d been told this in a Social Studies lesson.

Quite likely. It sounds like the child didn't fully understand the lesson, but more concerning is Kiwitoffee's implied argument that the child shouldn't have been taught that in a social studies lesson.

It's a fact that the British killed most of the Māori. Most of it wasn't purposeful killing, ie they were killed by diseases the British introduced or the health effects of having their land expropriated, but a significant number were killed purposefully in the course of expropriating that land. Hopefully Kiwitoffee isn't in charge of teaching social studies.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

I'm sorry Milt but the only words I can find to describe your last comment are 'horse shit.'

In fact, Maori themselves - mainly Ngapuhi, killed over thirty percent of the whole Maori population with muskets. That is why they are hated to this day and it is one of the prime reasons so many chiefs were keen to sign the Treaty of Waitangi. They wanted the British to protect them from Ngapuhi. Of course that doesn't suit the leftist narrative of your friendly faculty history revisionists. Read the accounts of the early Northland missionaries and you will find many British settlers were killed by Maori. Those at Kaeo were regarded as the most blood thirsty in the land.

pdm said...

Milt - you conveniently overlook that prior to the arrival of Europeans and probably for a while after Maori were very good at killing each other and of course The Moriori.

As far as kiwitoffee not teaching social studies - maybe it would be a good thing if he/she was.

Psycho Milt said...

In fact, Maori themselves - mainly Ngapuhi, killed over thirty percent of the whole Maori population with muskets.

Well, yes - the British also killed a lot of Māori by providing advanced weaponry to some tribal groups but not others. I did say most of it wasn't purposeful killing - this one was more negligence than anything else.

Psycho Milt said... conveniently overlook that prior to the arrival of Europeans and probably for a while after Maori were very good at killing each other...

I didn't overlook it, it's just irrelevant. Are you arguing that it is relevant to the question of why we speak English when England is on the other side of the world?

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Milt you are spinning for all you are worth. You might like to provide reliable references for your extraordinary claims.

Nga Puhi did not, to my knowledge, buy muskets from 'the British' as you imply. The British authorities had nothing to do with it. Maori bought muskets from traders who had an eye for a quick quid and who happened, in passing, to be British.

Hell, you might as well assert that when a manager in a university library makes some comment in public, whatever he said, no matter how stupid, is indelible university policy.

By the way, they were not 'tribal groups.' They were tribes. Why do you fellows from the left always use two words when one will do?

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Am I particularly grumpy today?

The answer is yes.

A very painful injury to one of the right hip joints.

So keep out of the way!

RosscoWlg said...

Yeah wasn't there that real nice guy called te rauparaha, c;leaned up from New Plymouth south, all the way to Banks Peninsula.

They love him around Wellington, not!

Psycho Milt said...

"The British" ("the English" in the original quote, but I think that relates more to the language than the nationality) are more than their government. I didn't write that the government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland killed most of the Māori, I wrote that "the British" did. As you pointed out, the people selling muskets to Nga Puhi were British.

As to "tribal groups," I'm not familiar enough with the history of the time to know whether muskets were sold only to one tribe, sub-tribes thereof or to multiple tribes, or what the relationship of those tribes or sub-tribes were to each other. "Tribal groups" was a deliberately vague term.

Psycho Milt said...

Yeah wasn't there that real nice guy called te rauparaha...

The discussion isn't about who was or wasn't a nice guy, but then I wouldn't expect you to know what it's about.

RosscoWlg said...

"I wouldn't expect you to know what it's about." Judging what they think about you over on Kiwiblog, the sites most down ticked person (38 from memory) you clearly have trouble grasping the issues over there and "know what its about"

Now don't go all Eggie on me, wimp out and delete me like he does. Man up....whoops, wrong gender!

Actually disease killed most of them..... and they couldn't escape coz they hadn't invented the wheel or hosuing for that matter.

Back to bed for you, double dosage for the meds and you'll be a more logical person in the morning!

Adolf Fiinkensein said...


Another history lesson for you.

The great influenza epidemic which killed thousands of Maori occurred after WW!. It killed over 100 million people throughout the world. 6% to 7% of the world's population. Your Greens friends would have approved. Do you seriously suggest this was caused by 'The British?'

It was brought back to NZ by troops returning from France. Among others there was the Maori Pioneer Battalion.

Anonymous said...

Muskets don’t fully answer the question why the Maori population collapsed at that time. One considered reason was that Maori were eating their daughters.

Mind you that doesn’t suit the patriarchal concept of the immaculate savage propagated by modern revisionists

pdm said...

Mmm interesting how this thread developed into Maori Wars and British involvement.

When I posted I thought it would have more of an education flavour.

Fight4NZ said...

Downticks in Kiwiblog a strong indicator of sound factual argument in the face of ideologically driven hysteria. Not far removed from what I see Milt faces here.

RosscoWlg said...

And tell me Fight4NZ what active steps are you taking to move the country forward and get our OECD ranking back into the top 10

1. Booed Jacinda at Eden Park
2 Encouraging her with letters and emails to stay overseas
3. Sent letters of encouragement to the Govt about future planned petrol price hikes
4. Encouraged the Minister of Transport to bring forward the car ban to 2025
5. Appauld the hikes in renatl pricing to squeeze further the stupid people on low incomes to get on welfare.

Oh by the way just letting you know downticks on Kiwiblog are indicator of sound moronic behaviour in the face of sound factual based arguments that have a basis in reality, practical thinking, finance and economics. None of them apply to Miltie, but I think its good for his mental health that he has an outlet here on NM!

He can say things without fear of strenuous downticking, in a more loving, embracing, environmentally friendly arena where sand is not required to hide the bloodstains of a good goring.

Psycho Milt said...

It's like someone made it their personal mission to provide an interactive online model of the Dunning-Kruger effect...

pdm said...

Rossco - read the moderation rules.

Don't come on my posts to troll and criticize other NM hosts - next time I will immediately delete.

Fight4NZ said...

Are you actually saying you booed the Prime Minister at Eden Park (a moment of shame for NZ screened internationally)? And claiming this is a step towards moving the country forward?
Not even sure what the rest mean.