Friday, March 8, 2019

Among The Many Lies of the Left

I'm grateful to a reader who sent me this link to WUWT.

The three biggest lies told about wind power are:-


  • It is enviro friendly.  Try telling that to the tens of thousands of native birds sliced up each year by those twirling blades in Australia.

  • The turbine's useful life is thirty years.   In fact, most have worn out after twenty years and as the following article indicates, some fail to make it even to ten years.  The proponents of wind power use the thirty year example to justify their false claims of economy.

  • Actual production never gets anywhere near 'plated' production but it is the 'plated' production which Labor/Labour politicians use to falsely claim their state or country is generating X percent of its total electricity from wind powered plants.

Here's a useful table from WUWT.  It is included in an article written by a New Zealander who lives in Wellington.

clip_image002

It's no wonder South Australia's power supply is stuffed.


This tells you all you need to know about the hot air and bullshit associated with the 'wind power' scam.  The ratio of actual to theoretical (plated) production ranges from a paltry 19% to a pathetic 28%.  It's just another version of the computer model scam. 

(These guys will tell you their cars can to 240kph because that's what printed on the speedo but, with the foot hard down on the accelerator, the best they can get out of their clapped out Toyotas is 60kph. 


35 comments:

Daz said...

The interesting thing is that that represents around $50m of annual retail income across the entire sector, generously assuming 30c/kWh. What is the return to capital on that sort of revenue??

I’ve no idea of the costs of installing and running NZ Inc wind generation for 20-30 years, but it must be waaay more than even the top line revenue could support. Does anyone know?

RosscoWlg said...

Stunning table.. and NZ is supposed to be Gawd's gift to windpower!

I'm sure our Globalist resident expert Eggie will have some excuse and that his little pied a deux in Central France is getting better than this.

I expect David to chip in any moment to prove the "fallacy of composition" still doesn't apply to him because he's a socialist and the fallacy is a neo classical composition!

I believe one of the significant NZ power company has totally disbanded their wind farm division and checked all the wind power engineers out the door!

RosscoWlg said...

Daz could be worth trying to email Andi Cockcroft mentioned in the article, he ,ay well have a lot of other interesting information available.

Cheers

Wiggo

Lord Egbut Nobacon said...

One of Adolf's more endearing traits is to trudge, head down arse up, unflinchingly into the firestorm of of all the evidence that has accrued before in posts less than three months old.

Don't want to go there again against the Russian inspired Luddites.

Briefly,

Glass sided multi story buildings cause 100 times the bird deaths...ban buildings??

Easy turbine swap outs and developing technology has overcome short turbine life of first generation stuff....don't quote old stories.

New word this "plated"....all turbines have peak and standard running speed......no turbine, including Hydro or coal fired steam ever runs at peak for more than a short period. The Turbo on my car is rated to 5500 engine revs a minute but only the Adolfs in this world would dream of running it flat stick 24/24.

Going to have a nap now and wait for the ridicule to accumulate.




Lord Egbut Nobacon said...

Oh..and check out the source....https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/watts-up-with-that/


Plated my chubby little buttocks......what a crock.

George said...

And just imagine running a factory dependent upon such a power source.
The greenies pushing these 'power sources' need to join the real world

Daz said...

Thx.

Daz said...

Good points, shame about the ad hominem.

Anyway, do you have a source for bird deaths as a result of building collision?

If the coatings were done for a 20-30 year life, did that include early replacement of key components?

And lastly, I think the point is that non solar/wind turbines can be brought to any desired output on demand. There is less flexibility managing demand with renewables.

Daz said...

Costings

Psycho Milt said...

Meanwhile, from sources other than "the leading climate change denial blog" (thanks Egbut):

New research blows away claims that ageing wind farms are a bad investment:

The team found that the UK's earliest turbines, built in the 1990s, are still producing three-quarters of their original output after 19 years of operation, nearly twice the amount previously claimed, and will operate effectively up to 25 years. This is comparable to the performance of gas turbines used in power stations.

Annual Wind Power Report Confirms Technology Advancements, Improved Project Performance, and Low Wind Energy Prices:

Prices offered by newly built wind projects in the United States are averaging around 2¢/kWh, driven lower by technology advancements and cost reductions.

David said...

Nice one wiggles, when the facts are against you, resort to "I believe ...". At this rate you'll be writing for New Idea.

You probably don't get much news in Russia of our little backwater, but so sad to tell you, we have endured two heatwaves this summer, including parts of SA setting new temperature records. The lights stayed on, and so did the air con. Factories all kept operating, shops were buzzing.

And before you launch in to the right wing talking point of our high prices for electricity, that is not because of renewables, it is because that is the way capitalism is ordained - to maximise profits. A company's sole duty is to extract the maximum profit for its shareholders.



RosscoWlg said...

David love your Marxism!

Right back at you.... buddy

"That is the way Socialism is ordained - to maximise misery for everyone!"

As for Capitalism it is not ordained that its sole objective is to maximise profits, in a narrow sphere of it, where a Monopoly situation has developed, they may attempt this.

Most businesses are trting to achieve a reasonable rate of return on their capital invested...that's why even a little Marxist like you has a few shares and a bank account!

And SA still the highest power prices in Australia. Germany and Denmark still the highest power prices in Europe and possibly the world.

Even David for a little Marxist like you surely you understand the concept (apologies for introducing another concept as I realise you and a lot of Greenies still struugle with the Fallacy of Composition) and that is the concept of "No Free Lunch"

Wiggo the devoted Capitalist"

David said...

As for Capitalism it is not ordained that its sole objective is to maximise profits,

Bzzzzt wrong.

If a product costs $1.00 to make and sell, but can only be sold for $0.90, it will not create profit so will not be made and sold. If a product can be made for $1.00 and can be sold for $9.00, why would I price it any lower?

If the directors and managers of a company are not doing everything in their power to maximise profit, then they are failing in their sole duty to the shareholders. The shareholders can, and in some cases, have sued over this.

For a supposed capitalist, you seem to know very little about how capitalism works.

Unlike you, I actually run a business. I have some products where the GP is as low as 12.5%, others where the GP is 300% and more. I can buy a compatible printer ink cartridge for under 3 bucks, including freight and GST and my customers will happily pay $14.95, as they are still saving a bucket load over OEM prices.

That, my little Russian friend, is how capitalism works.

that's why even a little Marxist like you has a few shares and a bank account!

Yes, I do have a bank account, four in fact, three for my business and one personal. If you can show me how to run a business without bank accounts, I'm all ears. Yes, I do own shares, in a co-operative.

And SA still the highest power prices in Australia.

Some days yes, somedays no, but that is due to the way the market operates, not how the power is generated. Everyday I see new solar installations by private enterprise. The future of electricity is local generation and storage, the distributed grid is old tech and is waning fast.

alwyn said...

If you are interested there is a Transpower site that will show you how much power is being generated in New Zealand. They update it every few minutes. It is
https://www.transpower.co.nz/power-system-live-data
At 11.22 am this morning, when I looked, total generation was 4557 MW, of which 2683 MW was Hydro.
The wind figures were really interesting and even worse than the numbers you show. The North Island was generating 6 MW from a total capacity of 564 MW. The South Island was generating 8 MW from a possible 94 MW

RosscoWlg said...

Thanks Alwyn. If you go to the WUWT article there is some fascinating reading in the 146 comments including wind power results for South Australia.

https://anero.id/energy/wind-energy/2019/february

They average between 30-35% against the numbers above of 23.75% but thats in a good year!

Of course the cunundrum the Greenies can never answer, "could you run a wind turbine factory to manufacture wind turbines on wind power alone" ?

The answer of course is no!

And David you poor soul you have confused cause and effect... power prices in SA are high not because of the legacy power system but because of the Green "system" thats replaced it! Reference Germany Denmark and now the UK...


David said...

Of course the cunundrum (sic) the Greenies can never answer, "could you run a wind turbine factory to manufacture wind turbines on wind power alone" ?

Yes, with a combination of wind and battery storage.

Renewables are still in theri development phase, but are rapidly catching up. When the Yallourn power station first opened, was it powered by brown coal mined and processed using the first dispatch of electricity from Yallourn? You're confusing the order of carts and horses.

The capitalists also disagree with you, take a of these and you will see the coal free future.

Tesla big battery defies skeptics, sends industry bananas over performance and How much money did Tesla big battery make over summer?

Psycho Milt said...

The wind figures were really interesting and even worse than the numbers you show. The North Island was generating 6 MW from a total capacity of 564 MW. The South Island was generating 8 MW from a possible 94 MW

Won't those total figures be entirely theoretical, though? That is, to deliver the listed total of 564 MW, every turbine in the North Island would have to be operational and the wind would have to be blowing at the optimum speed past each one, which in practice would never happen. I doubt we'd ever hit more than half that total even on the best days.

Psycho Milt said...

Of course the cunundrum (sic) the Greenies can never answer, "could you run a wind turbine factory to manufacture wind turbines on wind power alone" ?

Yes, with a combination of wind and battery storage.


True, but why would we even try to run on wind power alone? The reason "Greenies" have no answer for that question is that it's a silly question.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

David, don't you get sic of sic? Rossco's very subtle dig at you and your Greenie friends was way over your head.

David said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Lord Egbut Nobacon said...

I don't suppose that high electricity prices in Germany and Denmark have anything to do with them, having the highest wages.......min per hour Denmark is US$20.

Rather puts Davids argument in the frame ...non

RosscoWlg said...

Oh Eggie...dumb! Producing electricity is one of the most capital intensive industries in the world. Do I have to explain that even to you?

Please at least do some minium research into the energy market in Denmark and Germany before making a "clown" of yourself!

Lord Egbut Nobacon said...

Yup...minimum research completed.....

Denmark exchanges electricity with Norway, Sweden and Germany. Denmark imported 5.9 TWh from Norway and Sweden in 2017 and exported 1.3 TWh to Germany (fig. 7). The Danish net import was 4.6 TWh and the main flow di- rection was from north to south.Feb 21, 2018.

German also imports Electricity from France.......do you have some sort of problem with the word GRID or in this case Eurogrid?

Would you rather have lots of little men digging coal just for their own countries and hoarding their elctrisickles .....Myyyy Precioussss

Tom Hunter said...

@Pyscho
Won't those total figures be entirely theoretical, though?
Not entirely. Any wind/solar system runs between 0% and 100%, with a typical global average of around 30% for wind (dependent on location), and lower for solar.

But that's why wind/solar/Green groups, and the media, should not be announcing, for example, that a 100Mw wind farm has been added to the grid. For nuclear and hydro (90%+ ish), gas (85% -90% ish) and coal (80% ish), that's a reasonable claim. For wind it should be announced as a 30Mw wind farm has been added to the grid.

That it is not is a clever piece of propaganda taking advantage of people's traditional understanding of such things. A third-truth if you will! :)

but why would we even try to run on wind power alone?
Exactly. You'd be crazy to do that given those swings. The real question is what the backup is when the wind doesn't blow and the sun doesn't shine. And that's where the problems are for both CO2 emissions and the cost of electricity. Even in NZ, with about 70% hydropower, it means that Huntly may be around for some time. It ramps up faster than hydro, and that’s ignoring the possibility of the South Island hydro being hit by another drought like the early 90’s.

newly built wind projects in the United States are averaging around 2¢/kWh, driven lower by technology advancements and cost reductions.
The cost of solar panels and wind turbines could drop to zero and would still result in electricity prices that remain the same or even rise - because that backup is what costs money. So much money in fact that it should be included in the cost calculations of solar/wind. In a sense, the overall electricity price does just that, although specific LCOE’s (Levelised Cost of Electricity) can be a deceptive calculation.

This is why electricity prices in California, Germany and Denmark are higher than their neighbours but rising faster. California has increasing problems of cost/pricing/engineering with the growing mismatch between renewable supply peaks and overall demand peaks. Those surges across the grid have to be managed or it all falls over. They've sometimes resorted to paying other state grids to take the power. It's also why Germany's CO2 emissions have stalled out at 2009 levels: since they stupidly decided to shut their nuclear plants, which are great backups, they're left with coal/gas-fired stations.

And of course that power has to come across a vast grid from all those different sources, which means the following two arguments in making renewables work contradict eachother...

Count Eggburt - "do you have some sort of problem with the word GRID or in this case Eurogrid?
VS.
David - "The future of electricity is local generation and storage, the distributed grid is old tech and is waning fast."

Last and definitely least....
Count Eggbutt - "I don't suppose that high electricity prices in Germany and Denmark have anything to do with them, having the highest wages."
This is not even wrong.

RosscoWlg said...

D- Eggie old son! The previous post was an F so I guess teacher would say showing signs of improvement. Still better have kept quiet, heh.

All very well being a disciple, or even a priest, of the New Green Revolution Energy but best to understand the "product" in full before launching out there...bit like Jaxie and the CGT ?

In brief for Germany as I see Tom is covering it
Since 2008 Germany has invested in Green but
1. The sun don't shine at night
2. Wind is extremely variable, blows when you don't need it and doesn't blow when you do
3. Green Power is produced at the wrong frequency to all other traditional power so it destablises the system.

So for Germany
1. They have to export their surplus power and their neighbours charge like wounded bulls to take it. (otherwise the system destabilises and fails)
2. When Green power fails they have to buy "deficit power" from their neighbours, and guess what Eggie, the neighbours charge Germany like is going out of fashion to supply power. eg France

There you have it Eggie old son! By the way France is going the same way but not as quickly as the UK, as France sensibly still has nuclear!

In brief that was a "Dummies Guide to Power Prices in Germany" Sources various but you can search WUMT and find the detail there.

Your helpful friend

Wiggo

RosscoWlg said...

David, Thank you for the insights into your business, it was interesting reading and I applaud you as I know from theory how hard it is to run a business let alone a small business>
So my apologies for painting you as a Marxist, perhaps I should describe you as a middle class greenie? And perhaps feeling guilt and concern over the alleged things we have done to the planet.

As for maximising profits that is a slogan the left use to beat businessman like you and the capitalist system about the head.

I think the maximising profits was a paradigm of economics (neo classical) but I guess Tom Hunter can answer that, as its above my pay grade!

One could easily argue against you with your printer cartridge example, $14.95 sounds too low. It seems you could maximise profits more by increasing its price...it would be interesting to know why you priced it at that point? Social conscious, competition, altruism ???

I would image your business is in a competitive market therefore theoretical maximum profits are limited by competition. Perhaps you have reduced your prices below your competitors, therefore reducing your maximum profit ambition, to take market share and increase profits at a later date.

If you employ labour do you do that at the minimum wage mandated by South Australia to maximise your opportunity for maximum profit or do you reward them for other reasons and thus reduce your profits.?

Anyway just a few thoughts on profit from Russia.

PS taken you off the watch list :)

Wiggo

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Wiggo

If David were a true altruist he would have priced those ink cartridges at cost plus 10%.

That was the economic wisdom in the days of Muldoon, wasn't it?

Mind you, he would be blackballed by the Presbyterians, catering to Man's lower instincts with all those losing lotto tickets. Now you know why he is a fundamentalist believer in atheism.

Lord Egbut Nobacon said...


The scales have fallen from my eyes, you are right Mr Chunter. Wiggo so sorry for thinking you were talking nonsense. I now know renewable energy is a crock because the Russians are embracing it...when right wing Govts adopt something you just know it is going to be shite.

https://www.power-technology.com/features/russia-renewable-energy/

https://renewablesnow.com/news/overview-only-big-players-join-russias-solar-dominated-tender-510630/

https://www.irena.org/publications/2017/Apr/Renewable-Energy-Prospects-for-the-Russian-Federation-REmap-working-paper

Tom Hunter said...

The scales have fallen from my eyes....
Let them fall from your fingers instead and give me a concise, one-sentence summary of each link, then I'll have a look. That should be easy since you did read them, especially that "working paper", no?

:)

RosscoWlg said...

@Tom Hunter, I don't want to take the scales from Eggies mouth but is what he is trying to say in his 3 links, or have I got that wrong

"The EU’s green energy policies have

* increased energy prices significantly

* reduced competitiveness of European industries

* failed to solve the technological Achilles’ heel of intermittent renewables

* increased energy insecurity and dependence on Russian energy imports

* increased division between Western Europe and Central & Eastern Europe

* given rise to widespread public discontent and the rise of populist parties opposed to the green energy agenda

Dr Benny Peiser
Director, Global Warming Policy Foundation

And here is the link to his paper.. NOT MUCH TO DISAGREE WITH HERE I SUSPECT

https://www.thegwpf.com/content/uploads/2019/03/Amsterdam-Peiser-min.pdf

Lord Egbut Nobacon said...

HO,HO....god you must think we are all dummies down here in the Shaky Isles....

Global Warming Policy Foundation.....about as straight as a dogs hind leg.

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Global_Warming_Policy_Foundation

Actually founded by a bloke who lives about 110K away from me called Nigel Lawson, father of the lovely and far more intelligent Nigella.

Arch Brexiteer who also founded the main leave campaign saying the UK would thrive outside the EU.....has just applied for for French residence.

The GWPF is about as shonky as you get and by having to quote them merely shows the paucity of your argument.

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Benny_Peiser

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/jan/20/global-warming-policy-foundation-donors

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/climate-change-sceptics-breached-charity-rules/

Links to Briebart as well....yummy.

Tom Hunter said...

I don't want to take the scales from Eggies mouth

Don't worry about it Rossco. Count EggButt's list came from:

Google + "Russia" + "Renewable"
https://www.google.com.vn/search?ei=0jeGXJurCtq7rQH-pbbgCg&q=russia+renewable&oq=russia+renewable&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l4j0i22i30l6.2225.3164..3511...0.0..0.258.1533.0j2j5......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71._tBQWTceIe0

Yes. This is how much thought he puts into his "arguments".

Tom Hunter said...

More from Count Egg Butt - he of "You're all Russian Trolls... You're not from NZ anyway.... SInce you've been such a wanker about this...

....god you must think we are all dummies down here in the Shaky Isles
Among The Many Lies of the Left, March 11, 11:16pm

France is the most heavily taxed country in the EU but in order to appreciate it you have to live here to see the benefits in roading, rail, and city design to name but a few. For 42 euro I am wafted along with WiFi at 200Kph to Paris 400k away. - WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, February 22, 2019 at 9:24 AM

:)

Lord Egbut Nobacon said...

Jeez Chunter your links are all over the place like a mad woman's shit. Bottom line is rich bloke with no scientific training starts right wing Foundation to debunk climate change and hires another bloke with academic qualifications in Social Anthropology & Sport Sociology and no background in Climatology to head it up......and you call me a wanker. Funny how you won't answer the questions......c'mon mate gizza clue what town were you born in?

Lord Egbut Nobacon said...

Recently released papers show Lawson was the architect of Thatchers downfall. He actually wanted to join the EU monetary union....ouch.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/03/09/archive-papers-reveal-margaret-thatchers-dismay-nigel-lawsons/