Saturday, June 2, 2018

DENMARK TO BAN THE BURQA AND NIQAB

Yesterday the Danish Parliament passed a law banning he wearing of full face veils in public as contrary to Danish values.

Justice Minister Soren Poulsen said that the police would not enforce the removal of veils but would instead fine the person and order them to go home.   Fines will range from 1,000 Danish krone (NZD225) for a first offence to 10,000 krone for a fourth violation.

While this will resonate with some in NZL it leaves me cold.   In a free society people should have the right to wear what they wish providing it is not indecent.  There is no way the full face veil can be considered indecent.

Look, back in the 1950s when I was growing up Catholic nuns were garbed very close to what some people now are excised about with their opposition to the wearing of the niqab.    The debate is based on fear and ignorance and that should not be so in a tolerant society.

The right to wear what you wish  is not absolute and those choosing to hide their face have to accept their will be occasions where they can't.   Already many establishments (eg banks) deny entry to persons wearing apparel which hides their face from cctv cameras.    In the hospital operating theatre the face is kept free from obstruction.   In the Justice system the Court has the right to see the face of a person giving evidence in order to help judge the veracity of what he/she is saying.    The list goes on.

The banning of the niqab is a blunt instrument.   All it does is to generate resentment among the small minority of Muslims who see the wearing of the niqab as reflecting hijab (modesty).   That resentment provides fertile ground for extremists to cultivate with radicalisation the next step.    Is that what the Danes want ... is that what we want?


15 comments:

Andrei said...

"Forbidden fruit tastes sweeter"

The authorities "banning the burka" will make the wearing of it more desirable in some quarters.

Psychology 101

Psycho Milt said...

I wouldn't be in favour of laws like this myself, but the dominant culture in a country has a right to set rules about what their culture's willing to put up with in terms of clothing. In Kuwait, if you venture out in public wearing the tank top and stubbies appropriate to the oppressive heat, the Police won't hesitate to collar you, issue you with a fine and send you back home. And if a woman turned up at the beach in a bikini or topless, she'd better hope the cops get there quickly before the locals throwing things at her causes injuries. I didn't notice western residents denouncing the Kuwaiti government in the media, though. Every country puts limits on what you can wear, some just more so than others.

David said...

It is a fraught area and one in which I van see merit in both sides of the argument, which is rare.

The "ban the burka" moves are usually in countries where the nativist, anti-immigration Right is in the ascendant, and that is the Case for Denmark. They are also the usual suspects when terms such as "(insert nation) values" are used.

Like many choices in a free society, I am happy to see consenting adults wear whatever they like, but I do believe that burkas, niqabs, and hijabs should be banned for children.

Look, back in the 1950s when I was growing up Catholic nuns were garbed very close to what some people now are excised about with their opposition to the wearing of the niqab.

You must have grown up in a different 1950's to me, old chum. I never aw a nun fully covered, what nuns wore was much more like an al-amira or a shayla.

That resentment provides fertile ground for extremists to cultivate with radicalisation the next step. Is that what the Danes want ... is that what we want?

I agree that it is another tool to be used by the Religious Reich to stir up trouble, but unless they vote differently at the next election, this does seem like what the Danes want. As for the "we" bit, there are many in Oz who agree with this; Hansonites, Abbottites, The Bernardis, et al.

Gerald said...

"The actual number of people who currently wear either the burqa or niqab in Denmark is not known precisely.

The most recent figures come from 2010, when a government report estimated the number to be between 150 and 200 women, with the majority of these wearing the niqab, rather than the burqa."

The Veteran said...

David ... we need to distinguish between the burqa and the full face veil (niqab). I don't see many children wearing the niqab.

David said...

David ... we need to distinguish between the burqa and the full face veil (niqab).

Here is the difference between a Niqab and a Burka

Noel said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPhp_Q5V-NE

We need to distinguish between??????????????

The Veteran said...

David/Noel ... oh that it was so simple. It appears to be a moveable feast depending on how 'extreme' the wearer's views are.

Anonymous said...

A group of us were once threatened with arrest for taking our shirts off on a Sunday in a park in Pretoria, 1970...... I have no mixed feelings about this law as it is backed by a large number of Muslim women. A Maori woman I know was a supply teacher in London staying with Muslim families and according to her it was usually the husband that made the decision which was irrevocable.

Lord Egbut

Paranormal said...

And that Egbut is why I don't like the Danish law. It victimises the victims of a misogynistic barbaric culture even more.

Anonymous said...

Para.......do you have any acquaintances who are are practising Muslims? Have you ever lived a in a predominately Muslim country?.....If the answer is no then you will just have to take my word for the fact that your last is a nonsense.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1322233/

And...........
Education was universal in Muslim Spain, while in Christian Europe, 99 percent of the population was illiterate, and even kings could neither read nor write. The Moors boasted a remarkably high literacy rate for a pre-modern society. During an era when Europe had only two universities, the Moors had seventeen. The founders of Oxford University were inspired to form the institution after visiting universities in Spain. According to the United Nations’ Education body, the oldest university operating in the world today, is the University of Al-Karaouine of Morocco founded during the height of the Moorish Empire in 859 A.D. by a Black woman named Fatima al-Fihri.

In the realm of mathematics, the number zero (0), the Arabic numerals, and the decimal system were all introduced to Europe by Muslims, assisting them to solve problems far more quickly and accurately and laying the foundation for the Scientific Revolution.

The Moors’ scientific curiosity extended to flight and polymath, Ibn Firnas, made the world’s first scientific attempt to fly in a controlled manner, in 875 A.D. Historical archives suggest that his attempt worked, but his landing was somewhat less successful. Africans took to the skies some six centuries before the Italian Leonardo Da Vinci developed a hang glider.

Clearly, the Moors helped to lift the general European populace out of the Dark Ages, and paved the way for the Renaissance period. In fact, a large number of the traits on which modern Europe prides itself came to it from Muslim Spain, namely, free trade, diplomacy, open borders, etiquette, advanced seafaring, research methods, and key advances in chemistry.

Lord Egbut

rudy webb said...

You said: "The banning of the niqab is a blunt instrument. All it does is to generate resentment among the small minority of Muslims who see the wearing of the niqab as reflecting hijab (modesty). That resentment provides fertile ground for extremists to cultivate with radicalisation the next step. Is that what the Danes want ... is that what we want?"

The religion of war is infiltrating with one intention: to make non-Muslim states Muslim. Appeasement is insanity, the Danes took the first right step. All good Muslims are "extremist" who want you dead, converted or enslaved, no other choices, as stated by the Koran and the Hadiths.

Maybe you should read Tommy Robinson's book Why Muslims kill for Islam, and a biography of Muhammed.

Paranormal said...

Egbut, actually I have worked in a Muslim country and with Muslim colleagues. And I have seen firsthand the misogyny.

You also need to brush up on your history. Why was the Muslim world the seat of learning and now no longer? Do you know why the west has overtaken the Muslim world? Did you know what purpose Baghdad was built for?

I would suggest you either don't know as much about history as you think you do or you are trying to wilfully mislead.

The Veteran said...

Rudy Webb ... opposing the banning of the Burqa ain't appeasement but rather recognition that the consequences of such a move may serve to radicalise the aggrieved. I say again ... is that what the Danes want, is that what you want?

Anonymous said...

Para....in 1960's Britain a married woman was not allowed to open a bank account without her husbands permission, I suspect the same thing applied in NZ?. Nor was she allowed to to open a hire purchase agreement without hubby's permission. Under the code Napoleonic in France when a husband dies the house goes to the children not the wife.

"misogyny"....A Muslim women has more rights in a western society today, if she wishes to use them, than my mother did.

Lord Egbut