Saturday, May 12, 2018

MEANWHILE DOWN AT THE KUMARA PATCH

NZL is enjoying near record low unemployment and strong economic growth all per courtesy of the last National government.

Yesterday self and Mrs Veteran were at a luncheon where we were seated next to a farmer from Ruawai who runs a major kumara growing operation.   He was tearing his hair out ... reason ... no workers.   Yesterday he needed fifty ... he got two.   Said that many referred to him by WINZ don't last.   Some walk off the job after one day and don't even bother to return to pick up their pay packet.

And all this from a gummit pledged to cut immigration numbers.   Labour by 20-30,000 and NZ First from 70,000 down to just 10,000.

Against that backdrop would it be churlish to ask that nice Mr Jones how he proposes to make good on his promise to get his cuzzie bros off the couch planting those one billion trees.

Meanwhile back at the farm gate kumara are rotting in the ground.    


40 comments:

David said...

Capitalism fails again.

Capitalist theory states that a shortage of supply leads to increased prices that then bring new supply in to the market. This never seems to occur to the rural capitalists, that if they make wages attractive enough then they will attract sufficient labour.


The Veteran said...

Garbage David, pure garbage. These people are paying award wages ... got that ... more than the dole. Providing free transport from Dargaville where the unemployment rate is 9.8% compared with 7.7% for the whole of the Kaipara district. These ferals prefer the dole with a bit of wacky baccy growing on the side along with some illegal abalone fishing to boost their income even more ... and they don't have to get out of bed until they want to and they don't have to get their hands dirty either.

It's the inbred result of welfare-ism on steroids and with your lot in power it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

The Jones Boy cuzzie bros planting trees ... give me a break.

paul scott said...

I was down in Southland near Mossburn knocking on farm home doors looking for a friend. Many of the homes were farm worker homes, and had Indians, Koreans, all farmworkers. I had to come to the conclusion over the last few months that if New Zealanders will not work on farms [ because dope and dole ] then we have to bring in Immigrants. They [ immigrant farm workers ] were not able to give me much direction information, or the nutrient value of Kale though.

Gerald said...

Not new.
https://www.pressreader.com/new-zealand/nz-grower/20131201/281728382383886

pdm said...

David 1.32pm.

I take from the first sentence of your post that you prefer communism - where the workers are trucked in and the supervisors stand over them with whips and batons.

Your second sentence about higher wages is just a decoy.

Bloody idiot.

David said...

VEteran, they may well be paying award wages, but the award is a minimum, there is nothing to stop the offering of higher wages to attract labour. Isn't that the way Capitalism is supposed to work?

PDM - I love your new nym, suits you to a "T".

Psycho Milt said...

David is right. If I bewailed to the media the fact that I can't get anyone to sell me 12-packs of beer for the $5 I'm willing to pay, most of them would recognise a non-story being peddled by someone who doesn't understand basic economics. But for some reason they fail to notice the dumb-cuntery involved when it's being peddled by employers.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

It's almost as bad as the dumb cunt who doesn't realise that dole + dope money = $50/hour for less than ten hours work per week.

Are you going to bay some useless lazy bludger $51/hr to put Kumara into a bag until his back gets sore?

Anonymous said...

As usual a complicated multi faceted problem is boiled down to dole and drugs. What a simple life you denizens of the Sth pacific lead. The refusal by some in the agricultural sector to invest in automation is a part of the problem and NZ problems are a world wide problem, Germany, California, UK, Australia.......

A look from the other side.......... https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/people/brexit-and-the-workforce/why-are-so-few-brits-prepared-to-pick-fruit/554452.article

Lord Egbut

Mike said...

What about the New Zealand Motor Caravan Association members? I seem to recall they used to do this sort of work but something has stopped them. Don’t know what

Anonymous said...

Veteran.... if your mate can't afford to invest in his industry he should get out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F5h734NEpg

Slamming the Govt. on a non story over ag labour is not the way to go.

Lord Egbut

The Veteran said...

Egbut ... the harvesting is automated. If you lived in NZL you would know that. 'Harvesters' sit on the machine and monitor process ... full bins transferred to the packing house where the product is washed and graded (by humans). Clear that many of you petals don't have a clue about this.

Not wages David ... it's the 'hard work' so called and getting out of bed and turning up which is an anathema to many of the 9.8% 'unemployed' in Dargaville which you and yours would make excuses for.

Pathetic and humbug.

Psycho Milt said...

What do you mean, "It's not the wages?" If there's no-one willing to turn up consistently to do hard physical labour for minimum wage, the problem is exactly the same as no-one willing to sell me a 12-pack of beer for $5. That's not a problem that needs a modern-day Einstein to apply his brain to it.

pdm said...

Milt - what part of THESE PEOPLE DO NOT WANT TO WORK do you not comprehend?

If they were offered $25 an hour most of them would not turn up.

Paranormal said...

Interesting the left have been issued their weeks talking points by head office: https://homepaddock.wordpress.com/2018/05/09/rather-go-hungry-than-go-to-work/

Shame their comments lack basic economic understanding, but what else would you expect from the leftards.

David said...

Milt - what part of THESE PEOPLE DO NOT WANT TO WORK do you not comprehend?

The bit where you offer no evidence for your prejudice?

If they were offered $25 an hour most of them would not turn up.


And when did you try offering $25/hour? That's right, you haven't, you just pull shit from your arse.

Anonymous said...

There you go veteran..fixed it for you, now you only need a bloke to drive the forklift.
https://tongengineering.com/crops/potato-grading-washing-processing/

If you are running an industry based on 1000 year old subsistence crop gathering then you you should get out of the game and stop whinging about other peoples lifestyles. A few well paid operatives that have permanent employment are far better than importing half of the Sth Pacific.

Lord Egbut

Psycho Milt said...

Shame their comments lack basic economic understanding, but what else would you expect from the leftards.

Oh, we understand it all too well. From that Homepaddock post you linked to:

He said he did not think raising the pay rate would attract more local labour.

“We think that we’ve really reached the very limits of what’s available ready and willing to work, irrespective of the money.


I don't think raising my offer would enable me to buy a 12-pack of beer. I think I've reached the very limits of what 12-packs of beer are available, irrespective of the money. Mind you, I haven't actually tried offering $15-20 for a 12-pack rather than my preferred $5, but take my word for it, there's none available irrespective of the money. These brewers are just not interested in selling beer.

The Veteran said...

Some of you live in a strange world divorced from reality. Your solution ... pay 'them' what they want and they'll turn up. Never mind the industry goes under. Look petals ... up here in Northland forestry is BIG business. I can take you to a forest owner today who will give you a permanent job paying good bucks ... problem for him too ... no takers. Why, the drug test for starters ... then it's the daily grind of getting out of bed and turning up and putting in a hard days work.

NZL is close to full employment. Many of those left are verging on the unemployable for a variety of reasons including those making lifestyls choices. It may hurt your sensitivities to admit that ... tough.

This is the by-product of welfare-ism and it ain't gonna change anytime soon.

Psycho Milt said...

problem for him too ... no takers. Why, the drug test for starters ...

Well, duh. Who wants a job where the employer gets to decide what you're allowed to do on your evenings and weekends? The people who are OK with that join the army, not the forestry industry. Until drug testing companies can test for actual impairment it's just a way of ensuring few people are willing to work for you, so you can agitate for importing cheap foreign labour. If your job was dependent on regular testing showing that you hadn't consumed alcohol anytime in the last couple of weeks, you'd tell them where to stick their job too.

Psycho Milt said...

Also: Egbut's point is valid here. At the point where you're struggling to get enough people willing to do shit manual labour because it's just too expensive, the answer isn't to start importing migrant workers who'll work cheaper, it's to invest in automation of that shit manual labour. NZ's problem isn't dole bludgers, it's incompetent management and an investment sector focused on property speculation.

Paranormal said...

Milt, you've left your normally intelligent thoughtful commentary at the door with your approach to this one.

Of course brewers are not going to sell you beer at $5 for two reasons. Firstly if they did sell to you at $5 they would go bankrupt and secondly because they have a market that will pay more.

In case you'd missed it farmers are offering way more than minimum wages and still can't get workers. The unemployed have found income that costs them a lot less effort. Essentially the government is competing with employers. Surprisingly the employers are not willing to pay$50 an hour for labour as it is not sustainable and they still won't get decent, if any, workers.

The leftards are just pushing more economic ignorance here. Why don't we just raise the minimum wage to $50? We'd have no more unemployment. There's another Tui ad for you.

Vet, you're spot on - this is the result of generations of wefarism.

Snowflake said...

Wailing for the government to intervene in the market to supply them with cheap workers from the developing world is weird for a bunch of free-marketeers. Do you know how you increase supply of a good or service? You increase its price. Everything else you’re saying is wailing and special pleading. Why didn’t the business owners factor labour supply into their investment decisions? What are they doing to increase productivity? They need to stop whining and look to themselves for the solution.

Paranormal said...

milt, when was the last time you automated a manual role? It's not as easy as you think. A lot of the time the machine doesn't exist.also the capital required can be more than your average business can bear.

The problem isn't incompetent management, it's too much government sucking too much revenue out of the economy for poor spending on baubles and vote buying. If piggy hadn't said to voters don't worry about saving the gummint will look after you, we would have a very different economy now.

Kiwi employers have led the way in automating lower paid manual roles, particularly where the minimum wage has priced those jobs out of the market.

Snowflake said...

Bullshit, Subnormal. If it were true our productivity growth would be better than at the ass-end of the OECD. The lack of investment in plant and subsequently the amount of manual processing in dairy and hort and vit is almost criminal. Go ahead and blame the gummint, but the only way that is correct is in the willingness of previous administrations to buckle to the rent-seeking and supply cheap foreign labour to these sectors.

The Veteran said...

I am simply astounded at Psycho Milt's 8.48 post ... forestry work is inherently dangerous and Milt is arguing that forest managers should give drug users free rein to work in the industry. Simply astounding from a member of a Party who are forever banging on about H&S in the workplace. Milt, you've lost me completely with that one.

Snowflake ... whose arguing for migrant workers ... not me with 9.7% unemployment in Dargaville. I repeat yet again ... we are reaping the 'benefit' of decades of welfare-ism and live in a country where people can make a lifestyle choice NOT to work.

Snowflake said...

So make it worth people’s while to work. Simple. The dole should be meagre in relation to wages in the same way that it’s meagre in absolute terms. Why can’t employers get workers? It’s not rocket science, yet all of a sudden the economic basics get forgotten when it comes to paying the people who actually to the work. And Subnormal calls the left economically illiterate.

David said...

Veteran, you are quite right to be astounded by Milt's attitude to drug testing as you seem to be ignorant of the facts.

Marijuana use can be detected days after the use, long after any effects of its use have passed. That someone smoked a few joints on Saturday does not make them a workplace danger on Tuesday.

Prior to drug testing how many accidents were caused by

a) Drug use
b) Poor training
c) Poorly maintained equipment

How has the ratio changed since the introduction of drug testing?

Many US States introduced mandatory drug testing for welfare recipients. In each state the cost outweighed the savings. The rational given was that recipients were benefiting from State money, so why wasn't the drug testing regime designed to include other recipients of State money, legislators, business leaders, investors, etc?

The Veteran said...

Sorry Milt/David ... we will have to agree to disagree re drugs in the work place. I have seen the results of that ... clearly you haven't.

As for paying people to make it worthwhile for them to work. A single person aged 18-19 on the 'dole' and living at home gets the equivalent of $7.15/hr via Jobseeker support. The minimum wage in NZL is $16.50/hr well over over twice that. Your point?

Paranormal said...

Snowflake it might help if you tried some joined up thinking.

You and Milt rage against a lack of capital investmet but don't want to understand why it is that New Zealanders aren't savers and we rely on overseas capital.

You also fail to understand how humans work and how that affects productivity. Why would you work harder when the harder you work the more your progressive government wants to tax you. If you got out more and talked to more than your own echo chamber you would understand. A quick conversation with any chartered accountant would help you to understand a few realities in our country.

Psycho Milt said...

Sorry Milt/David ... we will have to agree to disagree re drugs in the work place.

We don't have any disagreement about drugs in the workplace. We do have a disagreement about using drug testing that only tells you somebody used a drug sometime in the last week. If the same drug testing approach were used for alcohol, a far more dangerous drug than marijuana, hardly anyone in the country would have a job.

Snowflake said...

So rely on overseas capital then, Subnormal. No biggie, it’s very cheap. Business tax is flat, not progressive, so you have no point there either. And I’m not suggesting working harder anyway. Rather investing in automation rather than whining to the government to get access to cheap labour. Either than or paying more. Pretty simple even for a disingenuous right-wrong nutcase.

The Veteran said...

Snowflake ... if pay more was the easy answer why doesn't 'your' gummit have the 'balls' to lift the minimum wage to ... I dunno ... $20/hr ... and yesterday.

Perhaps they have figured out even if you haven't that such a move would cripple many businesses.

Pretty simple even for a disingenuous left-wrong gummit.

Tom Hunter said...

... and don't even bother to return to pick up their pay packet.
Strange that there's been no mention of this part of the farmer's comment! These "workers" are so comfortable with their beneficiary life that they can't even be bothered picking up the money they actually earned? That's physical hardship.

It indicates that the issue here is far beyond the bounds of normal economics, with supply, demand and "price" elasticity.

But "meh": the long-held intention of the Left was to create a cradle-to-the-grave world that was so comfortable that people would no longer be forced to work "shit" jobs - even if the job in question consists not of digging up Kumara by hand and shovel, but sitting on a machine that does that (which means that capital investment and "automation" has been employed), so I guess we're approaching that old objective.

Perhaps the welfare state has finally outrun the capitalist system (at least in NZ) with the latter unable to create jobs that can compete with doing nothing and collecting welfare. It seems like a precursor to what we might see in a UBI situation. If you paid a standard Universal "living income" to people, would they bother doing any work at all, contributing in any way to our society? And of course that assumes that the rest of society would be able to generate enough money to enable such a redistribution, especially if the UBI gradually creates an ever-increasing proportion of the population who can't be bothered working.

Anonymous said...

Welfare is merely a bribe to obey the law. Get rid of welfare and you would treble the spend on the justice system/police and live in a much more dangerous country.

The unemployed between the ages of 16 and 35 cannot possibly supply the medieval labour demands of Dargaville farmers unless bussed in from Whangarei etc.

The ugly side of migrant labour.......... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-new-slaves-children-forced-to-work-as-farm-labourers-2115115.html

Forced labour is the answer we will all return to the land and start at year Zero....oh, sorry that one has been done.

Lord Egbut

Snowflake said...

Poor Tom Hunter is so befuddled he is battling to make sense of even the most simple concepts. He’s taking anecdote as evidence and using it to relay a confused type of hysteria. His position seems to be that no price would be sufficient to fill these roles if the minimum wage won’t do it because the dole is just so damn cushy. This leads to wailing and gnashing of teeth about the end of the world as people throw off the chains of their employers and kick back. Funny though, labour market participation in NZ is at record levels, and I bet he’s not on the dole, so what gives Tommy? These are shit jobs and they need to pay more. Occam’s razor innit?

The Veteran said...

Snowflake ... 'they need to pay more' ... so how about an answer to my 5.03 post.

David said...

if pay more was the easy answer why doesn't 'your' gummit have the 'balls' to lift the minimum wage to ... I dunno ... $20/hr ... and yesterday.

And there its is people, the total lack of understanding the way markets work.

The minimum wage is just that, the minimum. It is not the maximum. It is not a line that may not be crossed.

So come on Major Tom, explain why the "kumera farmer" won't offer higher wages to attract more labour.

The Veteran said...

David ... Who the f**k is Major Tom but I'll give it a go. This famer is NOT paying the minimum wage and he's offering free tpt to/from Dargaville. But, even if is was the minimum wage you're dancing on the head of a pin in trying to argue that $7.15/hr on the dole is better than $16.50/hr in work.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Poor David. Forgot to read the second chapter of 'Price Elasticity of Supply.

Perhaps he's like to tell the world at what hourly rate the doped up denizens of Dargaville would come to work and stay at work>'