Friday, April 6, 2018

GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT ... THEN WHAT?

Many of you would have read the story here of the teacher acquitted of sex charges against pupils he taught in an intermediate school.      One of the accusers admitted she lied that the teacher had indecently assaulted her while another, who claimed to have   witnessed the assaults, said it was all part of a plan to get the teacher fired.    The stories of two other accusers were found to have had major inconsistencies.

The teacher said his career was in ruins.   He had taught at the school for 27 years and was dismissed from his job after the charges were laid back in July.

The dismissal (assuming true) raises some interesting questions but, whatever the outcome, it's clear he won't be going back to his old school ever.   Dollars to donuts he will now exit the profession.   

It does however raise a wider question.    This is not the first time someone has lost their job because of allegations later proven unfounded.    Should that person be entitled to apply then to a specialist tribunal/board for compensation for loss of career prospects/earnings?     Persons wrongly imprisoned can be so compensated. Why not extend this to persons found not guilty by the Courts where it can be shown they have incurred material loss after being charged with the offence.   

There will of course be those who would argue the 'no smoke without fire' line.   Not sure I buy that.

I do not hold the Police to be responsible.   They have a job to do and any case involving children is likely to present its own special challenges.     There is already provision for an accused to be paid compensation if it can be proven the police acted maliciously in bringing the prosecution but the bar is a high one.    Don't think it can be argued the police acted maliciously in this case.     

Would welcome your thoughts.

26 comments:

Anonymous said...

"Should that person be entitled to apply then to a specialist tribunal/board for compensation for loss of career prospects/earnings?"

Absolutely! It's called justice.

Another (potential) by-product of this is if any of the little dears at the center of this do get indecently assaulted sometime in the future, the cops are going to be very leery of prosecuting.

Mick

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

I hope the teacher is able to take a civil case against his false accusers and though them, their parents. Currently it appears the little pricks face no consequences for their actions.

Anonymous said...

Veteran.....as always the the agenda's sometimes get in the the way of the facts and distort the truth..... whatever that is. Sex crimes are usually one on one which makes it very hard for the investigators unless sometimes "guided". The UK recently fired it's head of the CPS, a truly horrible woman who was a zealot on historical sex crimes and all victims were to be believed....this lead to some truly horrific miscarriages of justice and hiding of evidence not to mention a waste of police resources.

The Julian Assange case which I have followed closely since its inception is an example of the agenda overwhelming the rather mundane "truth".......it should never have got to this state of affairs. There is no easy answer.

Lord Egbut

David said...

The basic failure in this case is the dismissal when charges were laid. A suspension, with pay, would be the appropriate course of action.

The second failure, according to the defence lawyer was the Police.

"It was obvious from the video interview that were conducted by the police of two of the complainants and two so-called 'eye-witnesses' that their stories were hopelessly vague, inconsistent and implausible.

"They were irreconcilable with each other," Corlett said.


If that is true, one must wonder why the Police pursued a prosecution. Did no one at Crownies look at the video and say "Hang on"?

The final failure is with the school's principal and board chair who have gone to ground.

Anonymous said...

Walter....why do you demand consequences for others actions when your own are despicable?

Lord Egbut

Anonymous said...

Why they wanted him sacked is unclear but superficially the bloke is entitled to huge compensation for loss of income - perhaps his last 10 years and the damage done to his reputation. That debt can be split perhaps between the school that mishandled the mess and the girls who admitted lying. The girls need their debt lodged against them like a student debt and they should be named. Malicious and false complaints like these need to be stomped on and serious jail time should follow for adults who bring false complaints.

3:16

Seabird said...

The school itself needs to be taken to the cleaners for wrongful dismissal. How can an employer do this to an employee and get away with It? Just allegations and no evidence.

Noel said...

How come so many were so gullible?
Principal, Board of Trustees, Minister of Education investigation unit and Police.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/91028203/police-investigating-allegations-of-possible-inappropriate-behaviour-at-auckland-school

Shelldrake said...

Which ad hoc pressure/advocacy groups were involved with providing advice/counseling to these horrid girls. Probably now unable to be sighted

David said...

Where were you when Peter Ellis was maliciously prosecuted? Oh, that's right, gays don't have the same rights as straights.

What about a bit of support for David Bain? Still no compensation for the hell the state put him through.

But never let your christianity (3:16 I'm looking at you) get in the way of abusing and crucifying children. Your love and compassion is boundless, isn't it? Luke 11:4 is still in the bible, is it not? Just Like all the other compassionate teachings of Jesus that the Religious Reich ignore.

The Veteran said...

Noel ,,, educate me on your "Minister of Education Investigation Unit" ... didn't know that the Minister had his own investigation unit. Did you perhaps mean 'Ministry'?

Paulus said...

Agreed above - Peter Ellis decision is still a disgrace.

The Veteran said...

David ... Peter Ellis was never found not guilty period. He was convicted on 16 charges with the convictions on three of them overturned on Appeal. In March 2000 the then Chief Justice conducted a ministerial inquiry into the convictions which upheld the guilty verdicts. Later that year the G-G on the advice of the Justice Minister Phil Goff declined Ellis' request for a pardon.

Ellis would not meet the threshold I have set down. As for Bain and he received $925,000 as an ex-gratia payment in return for him stopping all legal action.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Our resident failed dimwit seems to think punishing children for abusing and crucifying an innocent teacher is 'unChristlike.'

I never fail to be amused by fundamentalist atheists who mouth off about Christianity. Especially those who bought their ordained minister's certificate from a crackpot American cult.

It is rare to hear Milt who, I understand, is not a Christian engage in such abuse. But then, he at least did study theology for a couple of years before deciding to be either an atheist or agnostic. (I'm not sure which.)

Novel said...

No it doesn't mention a Ministers unit in the link article.

David said...

The operative word there, Adolf, is children.

3:16 is happy to trash the lives of children, thus proving his christian compassion.

just as most Christians have never read the bible, neither have most of you read the law.

A child aged 10 or 11 cannot be prosecuted for a criminal offence, except for the offences of murder and manslaughter. Crimes Act 1961, s 21

If there is any group more sanctimonious, more hypocritical, less Christlike that Christians, I am yet to meet them.

BTW

Especially those who bought their ordained minister's certificate from a crackpot American cult.

It is not a "crackpot cult" and the certificates are free. The Universal Life Church, unlike the christian churches, does not suck the blood from its members.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Does your crackpot cult classify you as a certified atheist?

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Certified Atheist

Do a search 'intermediate schools nz' and you'll find they cater for years 7 and 8. These kids are 12 and 13 years old.

Knowing the law is not doing you much good, old chap. That's the trouble with all them Soviet law books.

David said...

From the article in Vet's link above.

The Crown case was that the teacher inappropriately touched three girls in his class, each aged 11 years.

So, unless you can find a report contradicting that, perhaps you should bugger off back to lawn mowing.

Anonymous said...

@ David. You assume a lot and I don't much care that you do.

l feel for victims first and perpetrators when they want to put things right. Getting away with it and sniggering leaves me cold. We have kids effectively wrecking a life - they need to be called to account because that's how wrongs are, partly at least, righted.

Many years ago a male aquaintance was arrested for alleged sexual molestation of a neighbour's daughter. It never went to trial because the evidence presented was so laughably flimsy - after enquiries by CYF and the police the matter was dropped. It didn't matter that there was no case to answer and the bloke, depressed and stressed, was dead of a heart attack at about 50 a year later. He's not the only one I've met that has been victimised like this.

As an aside I think the the Peter Ellis matter is shameful and children made up stories at the encouragement of psychopaths masquerading as experts but I remain convinced D Bain did it and a travesty has occurred.

3:16

David said...

3:16, I assume nothing, I comment on your outlook as expressed above.

We have kids effectively wrecking a life - they need to be called to account because that's how wrongs are, partly at least, righted.

Rubbish, garbage, and tosh. Any wrecking has been done by those who failed to properly investigate before launching a prosecution and those who sacked a man without waiting for a trial.

You say "called to account", just another meaningless religious trope. Your idea of "calling to account" is to saddle a child with a ruinous debt simply for being a child and too young/immature to understand the consequences of actions. You would have been great at Salem.

They are children, they do not need a harsh punishment. They need to be taught empathy, they need to understand the consequences of their actions and they need to make a genuine apology.

The teacher needs an apology from the board, a strong reference, and assistance in finding a new position.

As for your anecdote, I knew a bloke once, never did a wrong thing in his life, dead of a heart attack at 18! So, what was your point?

You would do well to read your bible again and try harder to emulate Jesus, the Prince of Princes, the forgiver of sins. Or, even better, ditch the religious bullshit and just become a decent human.

Anonymous said...

The first word of Jesus's first sermon is, "Repent".

Today everyone wants forgiveness but no-one wants to repent. Heaven won't be filled with decent human beings.

3:16

Anonymous said...

"Heaven won't be filled with decent human beings."

Difficult to fill something that doesn't exist.

David said...

Heaven won't be filled with decent human beings.

Thank you 3:16 for confirming how nasty your beliefs are.

A child raped by a priest who then goes on to live a blameless life, contributing to society, making other people's lives better, but failing to "repent" for imagined sins will never get in to your heaven. The priest goes on to rape multiple children, but "repents" and enters heaven. How fucking disgusting your beliefs are.

Your heaven is going to be filled with murderers, rapists, war criminals, drug dealers, all of whom have "repented", along with their victims. How would you feel sitting on the cloud next to the person who raped your mother, killed your father, and stole your childhood? Are you feeling forgiving?

This is why I despise religion, it fills people's heads with garbage and prevents logical thought.

David said...

The first word of Jesus's first sermon is, "Repent".

Is it? or are you making shit up?

Jesus first sermon is recorded in Luke 4. Now I know there are numerous translations of the bible out there, but I have never sen a word that is anything like "repent" in that chapter.

The Veteran said...

Gueez ... talk about threadjacking a serious question. Well, I tried.