Friday, February 23, 2018

Friday's Fulminations

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Anonymous said...

RE: Florida....

I googled 'has armed Teachers in schools' ...
I got bored with page after page of items all relating to the US'of'A.
There was one reference to Israel in regard to a picture of what was claimed to be a teacher carrying one of the AR15/M16 family. It had been debunked. The woman was a security guard specifically attached to a group on an outing off school premises. So, despite having been in pretty much a state of war for decades, even the Israelis do not arm their teachers.
I didn't see any historical references to armed teachers, no, not even good old Godwinian Nazi Germany.
So it would seem only the USA might be so infantile, unbalanced, immature, paranoid and generally deranged that they have a significant portion of people think arming teachers to prevent the slaughter of their school children in a situation that is not civil war, terrorist atrocity dominated , or basically powered by genocide and ethnic cleansing.

Most people cannot hit a football sized target at 10 yards with a pistol, even military personnel. This decreases with the onset of stress, adrenalin and high pulse rate make marksmanship impossible. The teacher will be the first to die unless he carries his weapon with one in the chamber and cocked and trains every day. This of course will lead to accidental shootings going ballistic. If the Americans swallow this simple minded placebo then they deserve the Mango.

Lord Egbut

The Veteran said...

All I can say is thank God the Second Amendment doesn't apply here in NZL.

Anonymous said...

You forgot the absence of these manufacturers.
Anderson Arms AM14-M4. Anderson Rifles. ...
Smith & Wesson M&P Sport. Slick Guns. ...
Armalite M-15 A4. Slick Guns. ...
Smith & Wesson M&P MOE. AR15 News. ...
Colt LE6920. ...
Daniel Defense M4 V1 LW. ...
Smith & Wesson M&P Optics Ready. ...
Rock River Arms LAR-15 Entry Tactical

Noel said...

Interesting Anon.
The shooter also owned an AK but didnt carry.

Waikikamukau News said...

Hey, Hey, NRA
How many kids
did you kill today?

David said...

Veteran, the 2nd doesn't even apply in the good ole USofA.

The 2nd does not give the right to "bear arms" for self defence.

The 2nd does not give the right to "bear arms" for religious reasons.

The 2nd does not give the right to "bear arms" so that armed thugs can overthrow the government, occupy government land, or refuse to pay grazing fees.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The gun fondlers always seem to forget the bolded bit about well regulated militia. A well regulated militia does not wander Walmart armed to the teeth.

George said...

It would appear to this ex Naval rating that there are few others in here who (to use a phrase) pulled the boots on.
It's the threat to the nutters that the school is waiting with armed trained personnel ready to defend themselves and their pupils.
The old saying "if you want peace prepare for war"..

Paranormal said...

Legbut, why do you think there has been such a surge in school attacks?

Have you considered the arming of teachers is not so they can have shootout's, but to act as a disincentive to the deranged cowards that plan school attacks?

As a starter you could look at how the US crime stats dropped following the concealed carry legislation. It's not that everyone has to carry, its that the bad guys don't know who is and who isn't.

David said...

Why would teachers want to be armed? They're job is to teach, not to act as pretend cops.

As a starter you could look at how the US crime stats dropped following the concealed carry legislation.

Correlation does not equal causation. Where is your proof?

Why don't the GOP allow any firearms in their conventions? Hypocrisy is the only reason I can think of.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Paranormal, you can't expect intelligent comment from those who lack intelligence.

The Veteran said...

George ... I don't disagree with the sentiment but I think it's sad that a country finds itself in a position where the provision of armed guards at schools is to be seen as necessary and the norm.

I see someone has suggested the teachers themselves should be armed ... why not take it one step further and arm the pupils. Stupid suggestions both.

David said...

Exactly, Adolf, and that's why Trump is going to allow all visitors to the Whitehouse to "conceal carry".

He isn't? You mean more right wing hypocrisy? Must be a day ending in "Y".

Paranormal said...

Vet - suggest you look closer at what I was saying. All that is needed is a disincentive for the deranged cowards. If they think teachers are armed they will choose a softer target. Just like the concealed carry laws have worked.

David, it's a shame you can't use your razor like intelligence to address the climate change elephant in the room. A whole lot of non-correlation and yet we're still supposed to believe in the new Gorebull Warmening religion.

Fortunately smarter people have worked it out:
The money quote: "Since 2007, the number of concealed handgun permits has soared from 4.6 million to over 12.8 million, and murder rates have fallen from 5.6 killings per 100,000 people to just 4.2, about a 25 percent drop, according to the report from the Crime Prevention Research Center."

For comparison New Zealand's murder rate is 1.3 per 100,000.

Where there is a significant difference is the assault rate. New Zealands assault rate is approx. 87 per 10,000. The US rate by comparison is 441 per 100,000 - approx. half New Zealand's.

For a more detailed picture you can go to:

Paranormal said...

David, perhaps concealed carry for visitors is not needed in the Whitehouse due to the large number of individuals that are already there concealed carrying? You know the Secret Service.

David said...

PN, your "money quote" is a further example of thinking correlation = causation, but where are the facts to back that up?

Your segue into the climate debate is revealing, seems you are on such shaky ground re guns you would like to turn the debate in to something else. aka threadjacking. Nice try, but not playing your games.

Furthermore, I did not suggest any connection between concealed carry and the presence of SS staff, simply made the point that visitors to the WH are not permitted to carry firearms. Why is that? Why does the GOP find it necessary to prohibit firearms at its conventions?

If you want proof that firearms are not the answer, look at the statistics. Forty four US cops shot and killed last year. Well armed, well trained. And still dead.

The Veteran said...

Paranormal ... I have some small experience with the teaching profession ... enough for me to say with some certainty that teachers and firearms don't mix.

David said...


AN ARMED officer was on duty at the Florida school where a shooter killed 17 people but never went inside to engage the gunman, authorities have revealed. The officer has been placed under investigation.

The Valentine’s Day shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School by a gunman armed with an AR-15 style assault rifle reignited national debate over gun laws and school safety.

Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School resource officer Scot Petersen was armed, in uniform and “clearly” knew there was an active shooter but did “nothing” to intervene, according to Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel.

What happened to the good guys with guns theory, what happened to armed guards in schools? Blown out of the fucking water by reality.

andrei said...

If anyone thinks a teacher armed with a pistol, is going to stop deranged fool armed with an AR15 with a thirty round magazine on a rampage is clearly a sandwhich short of a picnic

Andrei said...

The idea of arming teachers is bonkers - are they going to have the guns on their person or is the weopon going to be secured

In the former case how long before a teacher shoots his or herself or someone else by accident or is releived of the firearm by a pupil

In the latter case how much danage will be done before the weopon can be released and the teacher, hopelessly outgunned can confront the perp?

Paranormal said...

The underlying issue is schools have become a soft target. Just like the picture theatre in Colorado where the shooter drove past theatres where he thought the patrons would be carrying to target the gun free venue.

Given schools are a soft target how do you disincentivise deranged nutters from going on shooting sprees at them?

Bannng assault rifles is not the answer. They are banned in California and yet the two Daesh inspired terrorists had no problem getting a hold of them.

Police are not the answer either. They are trained to contain the situation, not go in and confront active shooters. Although I think you may see a change in tactics after the Florida shooting.

Allowing teachers to bring their own firearms to school will immediately publicise the fact that there are people able to shoot back on site. That will stop most of the nutters.

David, I see you have still to make any positive suggestions on what might stop these shootings. Pointing out you are not consistent with yourcorrelation vs causation is relevant to the non point you were trying to make.

Vet, have you ever been to a range after the police have had their annual firearms training? The way the range is shot up the safest place to be in an armed response would be behind the criminal.

Andrei said...

"Bannng assault rifles is not the answer. They are banned in California and yet the two Daesh inspired terrorists had no problem getting a hold of them. "

All that means is they can't be sold in California - you can drive to Arizona and buy one

The question is why would anyone want an assault rifle? They are infantry weapons - no good for shooting rabbits, deer or possums

You are being unrealistic about arming teachers or whatever. The realty is these shootings happen fast - the latest school shooting lasted about five minutes

With a fully loaded assault rifle you can do a lot of damage to innocent people in a very short time - a much shorter time frame than it takes for people even if they have access to weapons to react to

I ask again why would any private citizen want or need an assault rifle with a thirty round magazine?

Anonymous said...

Paranormal.....what the statistics don't show (yet) is the number of accidental shootings or toddlers blowing mummy away after getting into the handbag. The vast majority of handgun carriers are untrained apart from a day at the range before purchase. They are walking time bombs. As I right this I am listening to US police officers on BBC R4 debunking the thought that teachers could become paramilitary and how long it takes to become proficient with a handgun, schools by their very nature are crowded places.

According to the Center for Disease Control, there were 130,557 deaths in 2013 from unintentional injuries, the 4th ranking cause of death in 2013 overall. From 2005-2010, almost 3,800 people in the U.S. died from unintentional shootings.

The NRA are playing the school card to take emphasise of of other shootings like Vegas which would have been preventable had bump stocks and assault rifles been banned.

Lord Egbut

Andrei said...

You know Paranormal I saw a woman shoot her father dead in New Orleans many years ago now

They were tourists and she had a loaded pistol in her handbag - she reached in her bag to get something, the pistol fired, the bullet hit her father in the groin and he bled to death before the paramedics arrived

Not everyone is smart with guns

Paranormal said...

So Andrei what is your solution?

The Veteran said...

Paranormal ... in a faraway place many years ago I carried a .45 Browning pistol. Only bothered with one round in the clip. If it got so that I ever had to use it up close my solution was to stick it in my mouth and fire. Pistols are for the silent screen cowboys and not for teachers. Pistols at 15m and I would back the target 9/10.

Anonymous said...

9 milly veteran

Andrei said...

"So Andrei what is your solution?"

It is a complex problem, there is no solution is a soundbite.

For myself in my younger days I had three firearms - a humble 22 with a three round magazine, for rabbits and possum shooting, pest control

A single shot chambered in 25-06 for high country shooting - you could buy a couple of boxes of 22 rimfire ammunition for the same price as a single round for this centerfire caliber cost

And a Kentucky rifle for black powder shooting - had to cast my own bullets for this baby. It hung on the wall until the law was changed that required it to be kept in a gun cabinet at which point it was sold

None of these were guns for wannabe Rambos

That's the thing - we have seen the phenomina of guys who are total loosers arming themselves to the hilt with military style weapons and going on a rampage against unarmed and helpless civillians -

It happened at Aromoana, as I recall David Grey used a Chinese AK47 knockoff for his mayhem.

And as you will recall a Police Sergent armed with a pistol, Stuart Guthrie, was one of his victims. The pistol didn't help him

After this we had a national conversation and it was agreed that miltary style weapons were not required and magazine capacities for guns were limited to 10 rounds? Is it 10, I think it is

Foe me Paranormal the question is why would anyone need a military style firearm? Or even a semiautomatic rifle, they are inaccurate when compared to bolt action rifles. My old single shot 25-06 could shot a really tight group, you could hit what you were aiming atfirst time, but for shooting up a school not so good because it was slow to load

So there you go - ask the question, why does someone want a particular firearm? If they say they want a single shot centerfire for hunting goats in the high country that makes sense

If they say they need a semiautomatic military style assault rifle with a fifty round magazine for the same purpose it doesn't

As I recall during the David Grey debate the issue was raised about semi automatics because at that time they were culling deer from helicopters and semis made sense in that context but they don't make sense for deer stalking

Andrei said...

You know Paranormal when the second ammendment was drafted the Kentucky (or Pennsylvannia) rifle was state of the art.

They had helped George Washington win the American war of independence - the British and most of the American infantry used muskets at the time but the Americans had a cadre of highly skilled riflemen who used their rifles to great effect - in one famous case a British General was picked off at three hundred yards by a skilled rifleman - the General thought he was out of range and found out the hard way he wasn't when a marksman with a Kentucky Rifle picked him off

Rifles were considered too complicated for general infantry use then and for a some time after that - the first war they were in general use was the American civil war

My point is not the second amendment itself but what it covers when it provides American citizens with the "right to bear arms".

The American war for independence was won because the American side had a large number of men fronteersmen who were skilled with firearms, muskets and rifles and that has colored American thinking ever since

After the 1st world war military surplus rifles and ammunition were distributed to young men in rural areas effectively for free so that they could develop the skills needed for another war if it came - the surpus arose not so much from the war ending but from a change of caliber from 30-30 to 30-06

In New Zealand after WW2 military 303s were mofified into sporting rifles in large numbers, the difference between an infantry rifle and a sporting rifle being fairly minor but after WW2 specialist infantry weapons became prevalent AK47 and the M16 (AR15 as used in Florida shooting) being the most famous and these are not really adaptable to civilian use.

And this is where the discussion must take place (does the second ammendment cover military assault rifles)?

Anonymous said...

Total cut and paste bullshit from Putinland. It has not gone unnoticed that you post in statements. Oh, and by the way the 25-06 was almost unknown in NZ. How about backing your BS with a little more padding like where did you buy your 25-06.

You are what you are and nothing will change it.

Lord Egbut

The Veteran said...

Anon 1.23 ... Nah, mine was the .45 Browning bequeathed to me by 'Punchy' Worsnop who had liberated it from the Americans. He also gave me that advice.

Paranormal said...

Andrei, with respect your views are coloured by your experience, as you would expect.

As a left handed shooter I have always owned semi automatic firearms. Left handed bolt actions were just too rare and expensive. They are just as accurate as bolt actions. As a teenager I shot every Friday at the .22 range in Howick and my semi regularly beat my friend with a bolt action Brno.

The David Gray example you use is a good example of where the problem lays. The constable with the revolver had plenty of time to take out DG, but was bound up with police procedure at the time. The real issue is there had been four firearms related complaints against DG prior to the shootings. On any one of them the police could have acted and removed his firearms. So instead of addressing where the problem lay, and what would have worked, we get the stupidity (but politically acceptable response) of registering firearms based on the way they look. MSSA's are no worse than any other firearm.

Here's some examples:

Compared to

I bet the second one looks ok in your eyes? It is in fact no different functionally from an ar15. The first one is not semi auto and has been designed for those states that ban "assault rifles". Whilst it is a pump action, with minimal practice it can be shot just as quickly as an assault rifle.

The answer is not in banning guns because the bad guys will always get them.

Paranormal said...

Egbut, the .25-06 has been available in NZ since WW1. What Andrei describes is accurate in that they cost a fortune compared to the military surplus .303 that used to be plentiful.

Andrei said...

Total cut and paste bullshit from Putinland. It has not gone unnoticed that you post in statements. Oh, and by the way the 25-06 was almost unknown in NZ. How about backing your BS with a little more padding like where did you buy your 25-06.

How does ad hominem contribute to the debate Egnut?

25-06 was never a common caiber in NZ but it was and probably still is a good calibre for high country shooting due to it being a "flat shooter"

My particular example was bought second hand from a friend who liked shooting in the southern Alps Tahr and Chamois - it had a falling block action BTW and that is unusual in these times but contributes to accuracy

AS you can see ammunition for it is still readily available - I haven't been in our local gunshop for years but last time I was there they had it in store.

Andrei said...

I know where you are coming from Paranormal

I've shot a Ruger mini at the range and I could never shoot a group as tight as with my falling block action single shot and nor could the guy whose gun it was

Falling block action would solve your left handed problem :)

I think the Ruger mini was the favoured gun for deer culling from Helicopters.

Good gun for hunting in dense bush if chambered right which 25-06 is not - not a good high country gun though. A lever action in 44 might be the best choice for dense bush though

I agree with you slightly that there may not be too much difference functionally between a military style semi and a sporting style semi when it comes to creating havoc but the point is the mayhem makers wanna play Rambo and are drawn to the look far more than the function.

For me it is always been choosing the best gun for the job

What do you feel about restrictions on magazine capacity?

Anonymous said...

Andrei's not a debate. It's there to encourage gun nuts and those of limited world experience into a hobby debate.

Veteran..hate to weigh in to your discussion but Browning did not make a .45 until the 80's You are thinking of the Colt 1911.

Lord Egbut

andrei said...

Egbut it is a debate - we are tossing around how best to prevent lunatics with assault weapons blowing away innocent people going about their daily business while maintaining the rights of individuals owning firearms with legitimate reasons for doing so

And part of that debate might be discussing which firearms present a major threat to the innocent and which don't

Uisning annecdotes from our "limited world experience" to illustrate our points is a legitimate debating technique

And I know that the Kentucky Rifle that I sold more than 25 years ago is not the type of firearm that will ever be used in a massacre of innocent civilians

So it is a matter of pinning down which firearms are dangerous in this regard and how to mitigate that danger and what rights citizens might have to surrender in order to acheive this

The Veteran said...

Egb ut ... I'm not into guns but I thought the M1911 pistol was designed by John Browning and manufactured by Colt. I doubt I would have been able to hit a barn with it standing inside the barn ... but it wuz a good talking point bringing it thru customs when I went back to Malaysia on R&R.

David said...

The underlying issue is schools have become a soft target.

Could the gun nut argument get any more strained than this? Since when were schools ever a "hard target"? What do you want schools to become? Prisons?

Funny, but schools in NZ and Oz are both "soft targets", why don't they attract the number of shooters the US Schools do? that's right, the differing attitudes to firearms in those nations.

Bannng (sic) assault rifles is not the answer. They are banned in California and yet the two Daesh inspired terrorists had no problem getting a hold of them.

Seems you need a lesson in Geography. There are no patrolled borders, no border checks between states. The slack laws in one state undermines the tougher laws in another. Is that too hard for you to grasp? I guess it is.

Allowing teachers to bring their own firearms to school will immediately publicise the fact that there are people able to shoot back on site. That will stop most of the nutters.

You make a few dumb assumptions here. Will all teachers be willing to become armed enforcers? I doubt it. Will they be competent? Marksmanship is a skill and no amount of practice can turn an amatuer into a pro. Will they be capable? A lot of people are trained, and yet when called on to put their raining in to practice, freeze. And lastly, what use is a pop gun against an automatic rifle?

You say I offer no solutions? i do, you just don't like the idea of remoc=ving lethal weapons from the hands of deranged Americans, but I repeat myself.

How many more kids have to die before you see it is the warped ideology of the NRA powered rethuglicans that are the cause, not the solution?

David said...

The American kids are OK.

We should change the name of AR-15 to Marco Rubio because they're so easy to buy

Marjory Stoneman Douglass High School junior Sarah Chadwick

Paranormal said...

So David, your solution is to remove lethal weapons from the hands of deranged killers. Just how were you going to do that again?

You think I need a lesson in geography. Perhaps you need to spend some time in the real world. Or is it that you support trumps wall - right around continental USA?

There is no such thing as a hard border anywhere. Not only is any border porous, are you seriously thinking that passing a law will make a change?

What you seem to casually ignore is that deranged nutters bringing guns onto school property are breaking the Gun Free Schools Act.
You won't like it but it is a truism - only criminals will have guns and the good guys are at their mercy.

And that Andrei is why banning a particular type of gun won't work. As an aside the Ruger mini 14s and 30's had a wandering point of impact which might explain your target results. Ruger have supposedly fixed the issue on the newer rifles.

Andrei said...

Paranormal you are clutching at straws

Australia's gun laws are tighter than ours- way too tight I'd say and they have effectively banned semi automatics except for specific people using them for specific purposes - I thought that was the case before I looked it up

And I looked up magazine capacities for New Zealand it is 7 rounds for centerfire rifles and 15 for rimfire 22s

I remembered the debates over this after Aromoana but didn't recall exactly the outcome because it didn't affect anything I had or wanted to do.

Recreational shooters do not need semi automatic rifles nor large magazines and no civilian needs a MSSA - what is a MSSA good for?

I do kind of relate to your left handed issue but most major rifle manufacturers provide a left handed option - you might have to order it but if you are getting your dream gun you will probably have to order it anyway, its probably not on the rack in the gun store - so what

Paranormal said...


We'll have to agree to disagree. I have a left handed AR15 I use regularly for competition rifle shooting.

There is nothing wrong with semi auto firearms. Having said that I have a pump action shotgun that I use to regularly beat those with semi autos. Focusing on semi autos is not going to solve anything.

Aussies laws are a clusterfuck. It's interesting that following the introduction of the new laws there are still criminals shooting each other with illegal firearms. All sorts of unintended consequences such as a maximum caliber size for pistols means they're using more powerful calibre such as the .357 Sig and 38/45.

The laws were the result of another police stuff up. The firearm used in the Port Arthur massacre had been handed in to police but then ended up being used again. The police had also been warned about Bryant but had done nothing.

Anonymous said...

We have been here before with last mass shooting and the same tired old arguments are trotted out by both sides of the divide without either conceding a point. The "armed citizenry" prevents crime argument has been proved a fallacy with more lives lost by accident than lives lost in crime prevention and as proved in Sth Africa legally owned handguns are stolen by the truckload off careless owners.

Criminals will always have guns but that doesn't mean we all have to have carry a concealed weapon. If you take the time to read and digest this I would be grateful for your opinions. ....

An assault rifle or multi shot rifle is designed to kill people, anyone who uses either 7.62 short or 5.56 rounds for hunting large animals deserves to be shot with a ball of their own shit. They are useless at target shooting as there are so many better firearms around. Years ago I owned a Anshutz .22 designed for target shooting. It was possible to put 9 out of ten shots into a 1cm circle at 25metres.

Lord Egbut

Andrei said...

"An assault rifle or multi shot rifle is designed to kill people, anyone who uses either 7.62 short or 5.56 rounds for hunting large animals deserves to be shot with a ball of their own shit. They are useless at target shooting as there are so many better firearms around. Years ago I owned a Anshutz .22 designed for target shooting. It was possible to put 9 out of ten shots into a 1cm circle at 25metres."

Oh Egbut really - the 7.62mm round is known in its civilian variant as the 308 and is a common round for deer stalking in New Zealand. And deer stalking is a legitimate pasttime. Incidently the civilian variant 0f the 5.56mm NATO round is the .223 and that too is a commonly used calibre

Your Anshutz .22 is a gun explicitly designed for small bore target shooting which it is good at but would be hopeless for culling rabbits on a Central Otago farm, one task that may justify the use of a semi automatic rimfire 22

There's my point we lump all firearms together rather than asking why a particular individual wants a particular firearm

A person buying an Anshutz .22 is unlikely to have murder and mayhem in their heart and these are not rifles that are used in crimes and yet it is treated exactly the same way as the Ruger Mini semi automatics which have far more potential for criminal havoc (not that they have a history of this as far as I know)

The point is gun control should consist of asking why a particular individual wants to acquire a particular firearm - certain things should raise red flags. And while a Central Otago Farmer buying a rimfire 22 makes perfect sense, a loner seeking an MSSA really should set alarm bells ringing because that is the common factor in every single mass shooting that I am familiar with

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Daid @ 2.53

Yes, you need a very big OOPS.

The armed cops at the school were following rules of engagement laid down by the school administration and the local police authorities.

They were not permitted to arrest, let alone shoot, a pupil. The shooter was, or had recently been, a pupil. In other words, no bad behaviour at all could be punished or stopped.

It appears to me this one cop has been made a scapegoat.

David said...

It appears to me this one cop has been made a scapegoat.

Yeah,yeah, sure Ted.

“Deputy Sheriff Peterson I guess his name is, I mean, they brought it out, I was surprised, but it deserves to be brought out, what he did, he’s trained his whole life,” Mr Trump told reporters outside the Conservative Political Action Conference. “There’s an example. But when it came time to get in there and do something, he didn’t have the courage or something happened. But he certainly did a poor job.”

“There’s no question about that. He was there for five minutes, for five minutes. That was during the entire shooting. He heard it right at the beginning. So he certainly did a poor job. But that’s the case where somebody was outside, they’re trained, they didn’t react properly under pressure or they were a coward,” he said.

Yep, we all know Trump loves to scapegoat others, so no doubt you'll be calling him out on that.

David said...

The armed cops at the school were following rules of engagement laid down by the school administration and the local police authorities.

Guess the cops know more about the situation than you, but that's not surprising, you just make shit up all day long.

Sheriff Scott Israel said Deputy Scot Peterson should have “went in. Addressed the killer. Killed the killer.” Video footage showed Peterson did none of that, Israel said.

David said...

Almost two decades ago, when Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris went on a murderous rampage at a Colorado high school, the first officers on the scene did exactly as they were trained: They set up a perimeter to control the situation, while contacting SWAT officers.

Many of the more than three dozen killed and injured that day were struck by bullets and shrapnel long before SWAT arrived.

Columbine changed everything.

Since then, law enforcement officers in proximity of any active shooting scene have been trained to immediately confront and try to eliminate the threat — whether they’re heavily outgunned or not.

I'm guessing you will now revert to type and either delete these posts or go on another rampage of misinformation and messenger shooting.

One thing I know for sure you will not do is provide any evidence for your lies above.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

David, I don't recall ever deleting any of your comments because you at least have enough brains to refrain from abusing your blog host.

I think an apology is due.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

David, perhaps you'd better wait until a proper official inquiry has been carried out.

Anonymous said...

Andrei......your knowledge of firearms is picked up off the web and you wing it as you go. Try googling 7.62 short. and yes from the prone position an .22 target rifle will take out as many bunnies that are willing to pop their heads up.

Lord Egbut

Paranormal said...

Egbut, it is your knowledge of firearms that is woefully lacking.

You should try googling 7.62x39. You might learn it's ballistics are similar to .30-30. .30-30 has taken a lot of deer over the decades.