Thursday, August 10, 2017

Those damn townies!

Here's one for all those dirty-dairy enthusiasts who are convinced it must be those urban dwellers who are causing all this freshwater degradation:  Improving lake to national standard would have 'severe social and economic' consequences

Take-home message:

Nearly every dairy farm in the Selwyn district would need to be shut down for a polluted lake to meet national water quality standards, Environment Canterbury (ECan) has told the Government.

I also particularly liked this bit, it could serve as an epitaph for Nick Smith's time as Minister of "Conservation:"

ECan had already asked that the lake be excluded from national standards due to the scale of the pollution...

They're a group after National's own heart!  Oh, wait, that's right, National appointed them...


The Veteran said...

PM ... the follow-up question to your point has to be 'Therefore is it Green policy to shut down every dairy farm in Canterbury' ... rhetorical question and the answer in no because the Greens have already said the way forward is to shoot every fourth cow in NZL.

Point scoring aside and as a general rule farmers of today are far more environmentally conscious than their predecessors. There will always be the few cowboys (and cowgirls) out there who seek to rort the system (be it in terms of effluent run-off or benefit fraud) and those who do so should face the consequences of their actions.

David said...

I lived in Canterbury for 11 years, during a major expansion of dairying. Enormous amounts of water being extracted from the aquifers as the Canty plains drain far too rapidly to provide water for the shallow rooted pasture. Massive sprinklers running full tilt during rainstorms.

Intensive dairying should never have been permitted on the canty plains as it is totally unsuited.

A better bet would have been goats. They eat almost anything, unlike cows. They require far less water. More goats can be carried per hectare than cows. Goats produce milk. Goat meat is the world's most widely eaten meat.

Psycho Milt said...

PM ... the follow-up question to your point has to be 'Therefore is it Green policy to shut down every dairy farm in Canterbury' ...

I'm bemused by the concept that if it's impossible to have dairy farming on the Canterbury plains without emptying the acquifers and polluting the lakes and waterways, our response should be "Oh well, I guess there's nothing we can do about that because obviously there must be dairying on the Canterbury plains."

The Veteran said...

PM ... clearly I should have emphasized my second para. In everything there is a balance and I repeat again ... today's famers are more environmentally conscious than they have ever been. One thing for sure ... Labour's proposed tax on water will drive some out of business so I guess that's one way of solving the problem. Shut down business. And it's not just the cost of water we're talking about ... milk too.

The Adern Girl needs to 'honest up' and level with the country the rate of the new tax.
I mean people know the tax decrease they will be foregoing if Labour gets their grubby thieving hands on the treasury benches. Isn't it right they should also know the extent of the proposed tax increase so they can make an informed decision.

That was a rhetorical question. Labour isn't big on informed decisions.

Psycho Milt said...

In everything there is a balance and I repeat again ... today's famers are more environmentally conscious than they have ever been.

And also farming far more intensively than they have ever been, in environments that are unsuited to such intensive farming. The result is situations like the one with Lake Ellesmere, and National-appointed environmental bodies whose response to that is to ask the government to take the lake off the national standards register because it's making them look bad.

Anonymous said...

The "Adern Girl" unlike that Bill(shitter) Anguish 'boy' seems to be interested in 1. addressing the problem and 2. consulting with vested interests, including NZ'ers who are not farmers. Asking for the actual rate at this point is just asking for another line to attack Labour on and the woman (there are no 37 year old girls) is just not that stupid.


The Veteran said...

Anon 3.13 ... so being honest with the electorate ain't part of the equation then?

Fascinating the mind of those from the dark side of the political divide.

Anonymous said...

She has layed out the policy, and outlined the process they will take in determining the charge. Absolutely no lies (dishonesty) there. The only part of the electorate howling are those that want to continue full scale pollution of the countries waterways - privatised profit, socialised cost. Our current PM on the other hand has been less than honest about any number of things, but I guess thats ok because, um... something?


gravedodger said...

Lake Ellesmere is a special case in many ways and hyperbole and misinformation abounds in the minds of many.

The main river that empties into the now redundant estuary of the Waimakariri, a river that has chosen over half a millenia ago to short cut to the Pacific between Belfast and Kaiapoi leaving its old estuary as a shallow lake cut off from sea flushing by the vast quantities of shingle from the Rakaia to the South, is The Selwyn.
A river I have crossed at The White House on SH 1 all my life and only seen flowing water on very few occasions in high rainfall events

Ellesmere at around a maximum depth of under two meters, the fourth or is it fifth largest NZ lake by surface area, has always had algal blooms and nutrient pollution since for ever. It is the same for Forsyth to its southeast, a smaller body with no dairy in its catchment.
As a kid nearly seventy years ago it was known to be toxic from algal bloom that could kill stock drinking the water. Forsyth is also now cut off from sea flushing by Rakaia shingle but there is photo evidence of Barques going up to Kinloch and Little River in the early 1800s.

Nutrient and fecal pollution is evident in both lakes and modern dairy is a far less influence c2017 than at any time since european settlement.
Piggeries, dairy, abatoir, factory discharges are now eliminated as raw poluters but oxidation ponds are available to cause leakage and overflow in gross precipitation events from the variety of effluent treatment structures serving Lincoln Leeston/ Southbridge, and Rolleston, while The growing Darfield, Dunsandal, Kirwee, Burnham and smaller settlements are still mostly on Septic Tank systems.

Who would want inconvenient facts to get in the way of a beatup on "Dirty Dairy', particularly in election year with the Socialists and their Media party hacks making water quality a point of emphasis.

Spray irrigation and nutrient management is too expensive not to be managed to eliminate ground water contamination of shallow acquifers.

The Hororata, Hawkins and much of the Selwyn are dry bed subteranean flow streams across much if not all of their length that I have rarely seen in my seventy odd years to have flowing water visible.

Humans have an enormous ability to pollute their habitat, it has accompanied the progress since the smoke,ashes and refuse from cave dwellers. However the marvellous ability for humans to eliminate ar at least minimise negative after effects is unlimited.
For those who struggle to get a cup half full, dairy is a heaven sent gift to indulge in.
Reality is If there is one aspect of commercial activity that has maintained a vestige of prosperity for all New Zealanders it is Dairy and its allied activity.

Dont worry there will be another bus come by and it will be equally demonised from a combination of envy, negativity, and opportunism for mastery of the political debate.

Anonymous said...

You must be living near Lake Ellesmere Canada.......

Lord Egbut

Psycho Milt said...

OK, so on the one hand, we've got the scientists who've made a lengthy study of the situation reporting that, unsurprisingly, intensive dairying has intensively polluted the lake, and on the other hand we've got Gravedodger's anecdote-based personal opinion that the lake was always polluted and this is just a beat-up on dairy farming. It's a tough call, but I'm inclining towards the scientists.

gravedodger said...

Your inclination is shared by many Milt.

However pronouncements by Scientists c2017 are tainted if not corroded beyond fit for purpose in some examples, as many scientists real and faux have allowed funding parameters to influencee what they publish and promote not forgetting what they study.

Mike Joy has no background of Bias in his crusades does he.

A useful discussion though but in the absence of any economic reality in replacing the eight billion that Dairy creates, and it is actual creation, it is all rather moot.

Anonymous said...

as is typical of you Psycho you tend to shoot off without all the facts.
I spent many weekends at Lake Ellesmere in the 70s, well before their were many Dairy Farms in the area.
It was common to get a sore throat after swimming their and regularly we were warned to keep pets out of the water.

The seater was as dead and polluters as it is now.
Dairy is but one of the issues and easy to superficially blame

EH of D

Psycho Milt said...

as is typical of you Psycho you tend to shoot off without all the facts.

Nobody ever has all the facts. However, ECan has assembled as many of the facts as it can, in the report linked to by Lord Egbut above. I find that report more persuasive than your and Gravedodger's opinions, for obvious reasons.

gravedodger said...

Not forgetting Milt The Crats who inhabit Ecan are the very same ones who under successive dysfunctional elected governance could not create a coherent water policy in 19 years of seat warming.
When Key put Commissiners into get progress, those Crats suddenly delivered in one year what Ecan was charged to deliver when creaated from the old "Catchment Board two decades earlier.

The governance by the dysfunctional elected councils was dominated by urban dwelling socialists under the Chairmanship of a life time trougher Sir Kerry Burke who began his snout acttivity when The Late Big Norm Kirk swept to power in the 1970s then facing starvation when reality was restored headed of to the West Coast and electoral safety to be elevated to Mr Speaker.
Very fitting for one who is all mouth and trousers and revels in the sound of his own voice.