Thursday, June 15, 2017

THE CONSEQUENCES OF OVER THE TOP POLITICAL RHETORIC

Those of you who read my blog will know that I am no Donald Trump sycophant ... he doesn't walk on water; in fact he is skating in thin ice.    But all that aside, he is the duly elected President and, as such, he is entitled to a certain degree of respect even though one can disagree on some/many of his policy positions.

I've been concerned for some time that the extreme rhetoric directed against Trump on this and other blogs.   Extreme rhetoric can translate into action and today we saw it with the shooting of Congressman Steve Scalise, the Republican House Whip, at a warm up practise match in preparation for the annual Republican vs Democrats charity baseball game.

The shooter, now deceased, has been identified as James Hodgkinson, a sometime volunteer worker for the Bernie Sanders Presidential campaign, whose facebook page is littered with anti-Trump and anti-Republican rhetoric including (on 22 March) "Trump is a Traitor. Trump has destroyed our democracy.  It's time to destroy Trump and Co.".    Hodgkinson was also a member of the facebook group 'Terminate the Republican Party'.    Nuff said.

It is but a short step from over the top rhetoric to this sort of action.   It may not necessarily involve the author but it can inspire others.  Hodgkinson didn't need inspiring.   He did it his way.

Sad for America.   Sad for democracy. 


                

30 comments:

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Vet, it's been 'translating into action' in the USA for a long time. Witness masked gangs rampaging through streets and universities. The only thing about which I'm surprised is that it's taken this long for someone to be shot. I read that the security authoroties deal with around one attempt each week to have a go at the President.

Yes it is sad but the blame should be sheeted home to where it belongs. The demented Democrats and their insane media friends who won't accept a legitimate election result.

That's what is sad.

paul scott said...

Many Trump supporters and opponents of the violent antiFa and regressive left say now that the Civil war is on, and in its early stages.

The Veteran said...

Paul ... if this is the shape of politics to come then democracy as we know it is dead.
There is a huge difference between convictions sincerely held and the pursuit of violence in order to achieve political outcomes. I've said it before and I'll say it again ... there is no difference, no difference at all, between extremism of the right and extremism of the left.

Anyone who promotes/encourages violence by word or deed has my contempt.

DenMT said...

Veteran, I agree - the baseball game, whilst a bit trite as a political gesture is one of the few things that soften the partisan divide in the White House. Abhorrent that an attack like this could occur and a disheartening sign of the times.

That said, this is not solely a problem of the Left - you only have to look at this blogs own sidebar to see one of the most terrifying examples of violent rhetoric out there. The few times I have been to CrusaderRabbit have been an eye-opener, plenty of bizarre, depraved commentary about coming war, who deserves a bullet, who should be swinging from lampposts etc etc. Sad also that Adolf is one of the regular commentators there as well, one would think, and yet has the temerity above to solely blame 'the Democrats'.

If one is to extrapolate incidents of violence such as this one to a hardening climate of hatred and vitriol then it is not helpful imho to single out a particular axis on the political spectrum - both poles are usually as bad as each other - but instead to try and dampen the hysteria and appeal to sense and restraint. As you rightly point out, it is extremism of any stripe that should be fought.

DenMT

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

DenMt

Regular? Come on now! Once or twice each year and I defy you to identify any comment of mine which has encouraged the sort of behavior you describe.

Anonymous said...

Veteran.....Trump deserves NO respect. The Great office of POTUS deserves respect but that is unravelling as we speak. As military man you should know that you are saluting the Queens commission not the man. Unfortunately there are many officers who believe that they are worthy of a salute and this, like Trump, allows incompetence and inflames shallow egos.

Guns don't kill people? This begs the questions..how many would the perp have taken out with a golf club? Do not compare the London knife attack with this outrage, mock suicide vests kept otherwise brave people at a distance.

In the US how many attacks against innocent civilians have been coming from the rightwing nutters as opposed to the left wing nutters....lets start with Oklahoma bombing.

Troll Adolf DLT .....your attempt to blame shift and whip up hatred over a tragic fire should be enough for any sane person to despise you. Then you have the brass neck to say "Who ME!

Lord Egbut

The Veteran said...

Egbut ... this is a repeat of your comment on my colleagues post which I replied to on that thread. Nothing to add except to repeat once again that extremism on the right and the left side of politics is joined at the neck (not the brain because 'they' don't have any).

DenMT said...

Well, regular may not be fair, I certainly don't read it often enough to be able to assess that. I'll play the ball rather than the man and say that any reasonable person would come to the conclusion that that particular blog is a perfect example of the extreme partisan diatribe that characterises the worst bits of the internet.

A quick skim-read of the latest posts and comments only reinforce that idea, a bizarre hunger for armed conflict and civil war.

DenMT

Anonymous said...

Veteran...sorry doubled up by posting on wrong thread then thought it been etherised.

The fact that Troll Adolf DLT has limited reasoning ability is self evident.

Lord Egbut

gravedodger said...

The dumbarse small man syndrome sufferer didn't even know if the Ball players preparing for tonights playoff were Dems or Reps, actually asked an early departing Republican which, then embarked on a long building, short sprint to death.

Some remarkable luck and serius bravery by the protection police officers who were both wounded, the shooter was a demonstrably poor shot, the badly injured third ranking congressman had police protection who engaged the shooter while their object was down with a hip wound and the others went for cover. Vertically challenged nutter would never had lawful accesss to weapons here in NZ under our vetting system, hell when I was doing it for plod I refused to pass two who were choir boys compared to that retard.
Child abuser, raver on the webb, long history of internet published serious hatred for Trump and indeed all Republicans.
No fixed abode apparently lived in a van and showered at a Gymnasium where he became a passing acquaintance of the local Mayor who worked out there, he would never have passed the necessary safe secure storage standards of our licence laws.


It could have been a massacre with up to thirty victims in a cage with one gate.

Anonymous said...

Sounds like a radicalised Muslim to me. Oh sorry, shouldn't have said that, should have said fundamentalist Christian....bugger, what I really meant was that he was a mad at the world loser. No, that's wrong what I really meant was that any excuse will do as long as you can label it with your own particular prejudice.

Lord Egbut

Jobson Growth said...

I suspect that he was inspired by the words of that esteemed Senator from Kentucky, Rand Paul who tweeted:

Why do we have a Second Amendment? It's not to shoot deer. It's to shoot at the government when it becomes tyrannical!
2:18 AM - 24 Jun 2016

Right there is your smoking gun.

The Veteran said...

Thank you Jobson Growth ... fixed it. OTT rhetoric is solely the preserve of Republicans. The political left's hands are squeaky clean on this one.

Spew.

David said...

Not sure what you fixed in Jobson's post, Vet. There are hundreds of similar inflammatory statements from Repubs. How many are there from Dems? many instances of Obama trying to initiate discussions around gun laws, each time howled down by the Rethuglican Right and its enablers at the NRA.

During the last US Presidential election campaign there was only one candidate stirring his supporters into committing violent acts against their opponents, and it wasn't the Democrat.

It wasn't a bunch of lefties who attempted an armed insurrection at Malheur national park, nor is it Democrat voters who assert their "right to bear arms" by wandering around Walmart and McDonalds with fully loaded automatic weapons.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

David, soften you are so full of bullshit it makes my eyes water.

This just reported from Minneapolis:-

"Indiana State Police say a newer white 4-door Chevrolet Malibu with a Louisiana plate pulled up next to the pickup truck. A black male passenger held a handgun out of the window and fired several shots at the pro-Trump truck."

Funny how facts always trump bullshit.

Anonymous said...

Not drug/gang/race related then, just an innocent truck that voted Trump going about it's business....

Lord Egbut

David said...

Adolf, you keep coming up with these fake news stories, supposedly to support your position, and yet you never provide a link so a curious reader can see the whole picture.

I am prepared to bet a that the Trump voting truck also had a racist flag somewhere on it and that the good ole boys were hurling racist epithets at the previously peaceful Afro-Americans.

David said...

As your Bible says:

for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap

Steve Scalise got his due.

A strong supporter of the Second Amendment, Scalise has sponsored and cosponsored legislation protecting citizens' right to keep and bear arms. In the 112th Congress, Scalise introduced H.R. 58, the Firearms Interstate Commerce Reform Act, which improves law-abiding citizens' ability to purchase firearms. The bills Scalise has recently cosponsored include H.R.645, a bill to restore Second Amendment rights in the District of Columbia and the National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2011, H.R.822, which would ensure national reciprocity for concealed carry permit holders. Congressman Scalise's pro-gun stance has earned him an A+ rating from the National Rifle Association. A member of the Congressional Second Amendment Task Force, Congressman Steve Scalise will continue fighting to protect every citizen's Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms.

In other words, he was a gun fondlers gun fondler.

http://scalise.house.gov/issues/2nd-amendment

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

David

Wrong again. Do your own homework.

The Veteran said...

David 3.22 ... hate speech is not the preserve one particular side of the political spectrum. Your own particular contribution ... 'Rethuglican' might be construed as pushing the boundaries. But all that aside ... clearly you don't overly subscribe to the view that the political rhetoric re Trump needs to be wound back a tad. Sad.

BTW ... 'your' Bernie Sanders is a staunch supporter of the Second Amendment ... one of those NRA enablers.

David said...

“Obama, he’s a piece of shit. I told him to suck on my machine gun. Hey Hillary [Clinton], you might want to ride one of these into the sunset, you worthless bitch.”

“I have obviously failed to galvanize and prod, if not shame enough Americans to be ever vigilant not to let a Chicago communist-raised, communist-educated, communist-nurtured subhuman mongrel like the ACORN community organizer gangster Barack Hussein Obama to weasel his way into the top office of authority in the United States of America,” Nugent said.


Trump adviser, gun fondler and douche-bag, Ted Nugent.

I don't recall you ever saying the rhetoric about Obama or Clinton should be wound back. Does it only come to your attention when it's your side?

BTW ... 'your' Bernie Sanders is a staunch supporter of the Second Amendment ... one of those NRA enablers.

Once again, shallow thinking leads to shallow posting. yes, Sanders is a 2nd Amendment supporter, but not NRA style.

Sanders has a D- rating from the NRA.

Sanders has voted in favor of a nationwide ban on assault weapons, a nationwide ban on high-capacity magazines of over ten rounds, and nationwide expanded background checks that address unsafe loopholes.

Sanders believes assault weapons, as well as magazines holding more than ten bullets, should be banned nationwide.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

From the man who always demands links.


Which commie pinko rag spewed out that load of nonsense, David?

David said...

Adolf, I could tell you to do your own research, but googling is beyond your limited capacity.

here's nugent himself;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy8RIiTyhMI

The Veteran said...

David ... you really are an arsehole ... this extract from your 9.31 post defines YOU ... "Steve Scalise got his due". Clearly you approve of his shooting and that Sir makes you a one sick puppy. There is no difference between you and James Hodgkinson and, from hereon-in, I will reserve for you a certain degree of contempt.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Vet, to hear him talk about the Bible you'd think he was the Arch Bishop of Adelaide rather than a lonely leftie atheist who quotes ad nauseam from the old testament to denigrate Christianity which wasn't around when his favorite passage were written.

If he gave the same attention to the Quoran he might begin to understand the dangers of radical Islam.

Anonymous said...

A 48 year old man just drove a van into a group of Muslims about to enter a the Finsbury park Mosque shouting that he wanted to kill all all Muslims. So far the death toll is thankfully small but life changing injuries will account for a few of the injured.

We have no idea if the driver was pissed, radicalised or belongs to a hate group but one thing is for sure, him and thousands others of both sides of the religious divide are helped along the road to the ultimate act by the Troll Adolf DLT's of this world who will whip up hate and derision at the drop of a hat. The moment you condone a death by violence, as David did, you sink to the level of the very people you are trying to remove from society....say sorry David otherwise you might also be regarded in the same light as Troll Adolf DLT.

Lord Egbut

David said...

Vet, to hear him talk about the Bible you'd think he was the Arch Bishop of Adelaide rather than a lonely leftie atheist who quotes ad nauseam from the old testament to denigrate Christianity which wasn't around when his favorite passage were written.

Thus speaks "moderate christian", Adolf. So much wrong with that, Adolf.

1. Jesus was a Jew, his book was what is now referred to as the OT. He studied it, he drew inspiration from it, and if he is to be believed, he was also the author of it.

2. Jesus did not invent Christianity. He remained a Jew all his life. Christianity was the invention of Paul.

3. During my time as a christian, the OT was (and I believe still is) an important part of the christian canon. It is referred to in sermons, it is preached in pulpits, it underpins the religion. After all, without "The Fall" then there would have been no need of Jesus' "sacrifice" and there fore no resurrection and no Christianity. Everyone would be living a great life without god men telling us what to do.

4. Moderate Christians, such as exhibit Adolf, simply ignore the bits they don't like so that they can continue to feast on prawns and love the bits they do like, so that they can continue to berate our homosexual brethren. This puts them in direct contradiction to the words of Jesus as recorded in Matthew 5:18.

I became an atheist because, unlike most christians, I read the whole bible, I understood it, and consciously rejected it. The average "moderate christian" has never read it. They simply accept the quotes served up on Sunday and the picture book perfection of Sunday School.

If he gave the same attention to the Quoran he might begin to understand the dangers of radical Islam.

One does not need to read the Q'uran to understand that. These are people who accept in its most literal form their version of "the word of god".

They are identical the the USA's Religious Reich in that they use a holy book as a cover for the evil that lurks within them. They are one and the same as christian groups like Westboro Baptist Church, the KKK, Kingdom Identity Ministries, America's Promise and radical traditionalist Catholics.

It isn't one particular religion that is at fault, it is all religions that are used as a cover for evil.

And that is why the only rational position is Atheism.


David said...

The moment you condone a death by violence, as David did, you sink to the level of the very people you are trying to remove from society....say sorry David otherwise you might also be regarded in the same light as Troll Adolf DLT.

Sorry, Egbut, I am unsure how you see my comments as condoning death by violence. My comment was about cause and effect. I did not praise the shooter, did not celebrate the violence. I don't see why an apology is warranted.

Unlike Caitlin Jenner, uber-Trump fellator, who said Fortunately, the guy was a really bad shot. Liberals can’t even shoot straight!. Now there is someone who is celebrating politically motivated violence, declaring that if "her side" did the shooting, death would be assured.

Gotta give it to the Right every time to be assholes.

David said...

David ... you really are an arsehole ... this extract from your 9.31 post defines YOU ... "Steve Scalise got his due". Clearly you approve of his shooting and that Sir makes you a one sick puppy. There is no difference between you and James Hodgkinson and, from hereon-in, I will reserve for you a certain degree of contempt.

Read it again, Vet. It was not condoning political violence, something that as a pacifist I would never do. It was simply stating cause and effect.

Scalise is a supporter of unfettered access to guns. This is what happens. To reduce gun violence, you need to reduce access to guns and ensure that those who do have access to guns are sound in mind, properly trained, and not just hyped up on "might is right" rhetoric.

Why does the US have such high rates of shooting deaths?

The Veteran said...

David ... you are dancing on the head of a pin and should quit when you're behind and going south. For you to argue that "Steve Scalise got his due" was cause and effect and not condoning political violence is akin to arguing that black is white.

Nah ... my good friend Egbut comes from the same side of the political divide as you and he nailed it with his evisceration of your 9.31 post as beyond the pail.

Pacifist you are clearly NOT.