Tuesday, April 25, 2017


and no clue how their freedom to be so remains available!

During the dinner mentioned below conversation turned to todays opportunity to remember and it was agreed that it was great that the "Goffs"  seemed to have withdrawn to leave ANZAC Day alone and spared from the inane thoughtlessness that seemed to be fodder for a simple media through the years.

It was with some sadness that Newstalk ZB last night and again this morning, covered a forgettable sickening intention by a bunch who would not recognise freedom and sacrifice if it hit them in the chops, claiming they would remember the "six" from Hagar's novel, recently published and then day by day destroyed as facts emerged, intended to lay a wreath for the "six victims of New Zealand Forces War Crimes some years ago in Afganistan".
While thousands of youth and children along with adults, some with painfully close connections, for a host of reasons, embrace Anzac Day and hopefully garner some understanding of the necessity, the horror, the service and the sacrifice that enables that remembrance and celebration  to happen, there are apparently still a moronic few who cannot gather the necessary respect for the feelings of others and let it be.
The Media drones from Newstalk could have ignored it, but no, the non news was too attractive as an addendum to their hero's treachery.
Nuf said, back to what does matter

Lest we Forget.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them.


Psycho Milt said...

Yeah, God forbid the news media should notice people have different opinions, that's not what Our Brave Lads fought for - oh wait, yes actually it was. Is there some sense in which you pretending people killed by NZ military personnel don't matter is less reprehensible than putting up an anti-war sign at an ANZAC Day parade?

Anonymous said...

I lay this demonstration squarely on the Governments shoulders. They ducked the bullet by not holding an enquiry when it was so obviously needed to clear or apportion blame and make restitution. I also mentioned that it will fester for years...lance the boil.

Lord Egbut

Anonymous said...

I don't think this will fester at all. Hagar made serious allegations with great fanfare but it became clear that some of the reporting is less accurate than it needs to be. The photo of the spent casings is an example - it proves nothing so is pointless. Once those errors were apparent Hagar was on the back foot, scrambling for purchase and the book became a non event. With zealots you never lance a boil because facts are less important than agenda - official inquiries are always cover ups if they don't say what you want to hear.


Anonymous said...

Anon 3.16 You miss the point entirely, what you or I think or have an opinion of is utterly irrelevant. Name calling and finger pointing will never replace a judicial decision.

Lord Egbut

Paulus said...

An interesting observation yesterday at the ANZAC commemoration in Mt Maunganui - with continuing greater Maori inclusion.
It is why every primary school child has to learn to do a haka when first in school.
Whilst the greater Tauranga is entirely beholden to Maori with most Council agreements having to be approved by Iwi.
It is now suggested, including the NZME baby paper, that local Maori Wars, which a number appear to have been discovered in recent years, with ratepayers money well spent, want to be included in the ANZAC commemorations.
Discussions have been heard yesterday that as far as the Western BOP Maori are concerned it has a greater personal numerical attraction than Waitangi Day with is for the Northern tribes.
It would give local Maori greater influence - of course it will cover the rest of the country soon afterwards.

The Veteran said...

PM/Egbut ... not sure there is any boil to lance. Dealing with the demonstration first and certainly 'they' have the right to demonstrate. The the essential dilemma (if that is the right word) is their choosing of ANZAC Day to make the protest. ANZAC day is sacred to many and so is right to protest. If they did it on any other day no-one would take any notice ... for them it's bang for buck. On balance I agree with their right to protest.

Re the boil. I have now had the chance to talk with one of the main players. Yes, I think civilians were killed. Shit happens in war and particularly in a night operation where the opposing side does not wear uniforms and where every male Afghani over age ten has access to a weapon. Was it a revenge killing by the SAS gone rogue (that's the sub plot encouraged by Hagar and seized upon by those quick to label our military as guilty of war crimes) ... no way. Come back to the essential point ... shit happens in war. Doesn't make it right but neither does it make it wrong.

One further point ... I'm advised that the two villages involved are now firmly under the control of the Talaban. Perhaps they always were and if they weren't ... can't particularly blame them.

Some people clearly think war is a gentleman's game. It ain't and neither is it black and white, more a shade of grey with a fair bit of fog to boot.

paul scott said...

God in heaven where did we get Psycho Milk and Scrambled Egg brain from.
Their sad idiot names say it all.
My father had an easy war. He arrived in Guadalcanal in 1944, and from the photos, I think all he did was shoot crocodiles, and look after babies at some maternity hospital there.
He was the weather forecaster to see if it was safe for planes to take off.
His forecasts were always made by just looking at the sky and knowing cloud formations, wet thumb in the air to see which way the wind was blowing.
He and Mum must have decided to take the risk, and my older brother was born in 1945.
Every year at this time I send the siblings reprints from his monochrome album.

Anonymous said...

Veteran..you are still misreading my posts. An enquiry is needed to establish the source of intelligence and whether proper procedures were followed in vetting the information.

No one has gone "rogue" as you are fond of saying and no one has actually blamed the soldiers on the ground, I feel for them. Unless the background is subject to an enquiry these events will continue to happen...this was the second time the NZSAS killed friendlies by reacting to duff information.

The continued accusations of "going rogue" are just a deflection from the real story and as I said many posts ago this will continue to fester for many years.

Cast your mind back to the murder by bayonet and boot of the 60 Arabs, men and boys, by the NZ mounted infantry in 1919. Look at the coverup that generated before it was finally admitted.

The villages back under Taliban control.....why are you surprised?

Lord Egbut

The Veteran said...

Egbut ... if that is the inquiry you refer to then it is properly done by the military and certainly not in any civil jurisdiction. I would be surprised if that hadn't already happened. It is standard procedure.

Sorry to rain on your parade. Soldiers on the ground have been blamed. They have been accused of war crimes. Look to this blog and others for confirmation of that.

You cannot compare 1917 with 2017. Different time, different circumstances, Different mores. And yes. there are recorded instances of Maori eating their defeated rivals less than eighty years previous to that. So what?

No I am not surprised about villages allegedly under Talaban control. Anyone stupid enough to think the Kabul government (of whatever hue) exercises control over the whole country needs their head read. Afghanistan has been, is now, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future ruled by tribal warlords answering to their own clans and prepared to enter into short term alliances with others to their mutual benefit. Outside Kabul people go to where the power is with their extended family survival the key component. In India they used to call them 'rice christians'.

Anonymous said...

When a UK police force faces an enquiry for past events that are controversial or where they are thought to have exeded their powers they bring in a Chief constable from another force who is a disinterested party to head it....it works.. The only way you can hold a military enquiry on this event is if it headed by an outsider British/Dane/ Canadian etc. Asking the military to investigate itself would not satisfy anyone, besides they investigated the the first event and it happened again so it is obvious lessons were not learnt.

Lord Egbut Nobacon

The Veteran said...

Egbut ... you yourself said the inquiry should focus on intelligence and procedural failures. I would argue that the military are best placed to do that ... that is why there are 'after action reports' with a whole section devoted to 'lessons learnt'.

If you were talking about war crimes then the situation changes and yes, they should be investigated by an independent body. But you and I are not talking about war crimes even though some of our colleague posters are although they are marching to a different drum.