Wednesday, December 28, 2016


He has been called the prince of darkness, maybe the duke of dopy would be more accurate.

As if getting excrement all over himself and his party in what appeared to be stupid in spades with his Saudi Sheep deal, Murray McCully has now played the Christmas grinch by sponsoring a Security Council resolution that condemns Israeli settlements in conquered land.

In a turbulent short history that has a modern entity born out of millennia of Jewish connection to what Christendom regards as The Holy Lands of Judah, Somaria and others from the legends of the Old Testament and the centuries prior to the birth of Jesus, the nation of Israel was created in the chaos of the ending of the British Mandate for Palestine in 1948. A mandate that came out of the defeat of Germany and the Ottoman Empire thirty years earlier.
Ever since that time, created in the traumatic aftermath of one of the most concerted efforts to destroy a people by genocide, The Nation of Israel has endured in the face of constant attack from the Arab neighbours.that in 2016 still sees daily rocket attacks from Gaza, continuing without any such rubbish response from The Useless Nations.
In what has all the hallmarks of a stitch up from a lame duck POTUS who decided his legacy might be notable if an act of gross treachery, spitefully delivered with connivance from My country could deliver a kick in the cods for 'Bibi' Netanyahu, was part of a destructive behaviour from a graceless defeated political machine.
I say graceless as it comes amidst a shrill outpouring from O'Bama and his now seriously saddening Missus, claiming he "the messaia" would have defeated Trump.
So bloody what, possibly the only legacy he will leave is the Trump Presidency, and what exactly that will be is yet to be revealed.

Oi Mr McCully do a bit of Google, last I checked Israel is the only functioning democracy in the Middle East, and your crawling around the O'Bama mob, the murdering Saudis, and all the other shitty tinpot regimes of the region is nauseous and cringeworthy.
At the very least for Netanyahu who has around twenty percent of his voters listed as Muslim, he must get elected to remain in power so in a few words please explain just what motivates you to be such a mendacious prick as to your biased approach to the ongoing war of anhilation for the only democracy in The Midle East.


The Veteran said...

Israel vs the Palestinians is a problem that has to be solved. I accept completely the right of Israel to exist noting however that the 1948 War of Independence saw an estimated 750,000 Arabs made refugees. That was the genesis of the problem.

I accept too the right of the Palestinians to a home state. The two state solution which would establish Palestine as an independent state in Gaza and most of the Left Bank leaving the rest of the land to Israel is the obvious answer and although fine in theory (and accepted many in Israel) the devil is in the detail. It's against that background that saw the passing of the recent UN Security Council resolution co-sponsored by NZL ... the continued building of new Israeli settlements on the West Bank is a stumbling block to implementation of the two state solution.

There are hardliners in the Palestinian community, supported by Iran and to a lessor extent Iraq, who deny the right of the Israeli State to exist. Until that issue is solved the problem will remain but it must be solved and both the Israeli and Palestinian peoples need to reach a compromise solution.

Doing nothing is not an option because sooner or later it will boil over into another conflict and underpinning all that is the fact the Israel has the bomb ... best estimates are between 65 and 85 warheads with most of them targeted at Iran.

I repeat, doing nothing is not an option for the world community.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Vet, I feel your analysis is somewhat benign.

According to wiki :-

'Egypt, Syria and Iraq by contrast, attempted a full invasion of the territory of the newly created State of Israel with the intention of expunging it.'

They were defeated and between them finished up occupying Gaza and the West Bank but no Palestinian state was formed.

Your two state solution is not what these people want. They want to exterminate the people of Israel. All of them. And Obama is doing his damnedest to assist.

I know I am a simple old civilian and I always thought that defeat in a war led to consequences, especially when the war was started by those complaining of the consequences. Here is seems the losers simply want to be given the victor's spoils.

You do realise that the descendants of the 700,000 Arabs who 'ran away' could always move into Israel and live alongside the 1.5 mil Arab citizens of that country?

They'd just have to learn to do something more useful than train their children to be suicide bombers.

Angry Tory said...

Judea and Samaria.

more to the point, the problem isn't Israel per se: it's what TRUMP does to the two mostly-developed countries that actually sponsored the resolution: Malaysia and New Zealand.

TRUMP doesn't forget and he doesn't forgive. Netanyahu has said the sponsoring countries will be punished but only TRUMP can enforce that punishment: cancelling flight rights to NZ, for example, or preventing the export of (Israeli developed) chemotherapy or (Israeli developed) encryption software as classified munitions (oops: no iPhones, no Macs, no Windows exports to NZ)..

The Veteran said...

At ... you are a dick. You are either a xx YO going senile or a 12 YO who reads comic books and believes them. Suggest you read what John Bolton, Trump's nominee as Deputy Deputy Secretary of State, had to say on the issue. He at least was sage enough to tell it how it is.

Tell me, how does the US President cancel flights to NZL? I mean you're not suggesting he is a fascist/communist dictator are you ... or perhaps you are ... explains a lot. Sigh.

Noel said...

Alea iacta est.
Declaring war on New Zealand isn't going to change that.

Anonymous said...

Israel has a right to exist. That said - West bank, 5m Arabs, 500,000 Jews. The minority is displacing the majority. Deliberately, and to their minds inexorably. If soemone came to my freehold land and told me to get out before the bulldozer turned me under along with my house and orchard then there'd be gunfire.
Every time someone disagrees with the 'four by two's' they squeal holocaust and anti semitism louder than a stuck pig.

Stuff them.

This dialogue is no different than what is going on inside Israel.


Angry Tory said...

how does the US President cancel flights to NZL?

executive order to the FAA, listing NZ as a country supporting terrorism.

Turns out, under international law, a state of war now exists between Israel and NZ - Israel's comments being a conditional declaration of war under the Hague Treaty. NZ did not meet the conditions, Israel has not rescinded its statement: consequently a state of war exists between Israel and New Zealand.

So New Zealand is currently at war with USA's #1 ally in the entire world. I think TRUMP will be able to do whatever he likes to NZ come Jan 20. Who would miss Wellington, after all.

The Veteran said...

Gueez AT ... are you for real. According to your definition Israel is at war with the UK, France, China, the Russian Federation, Angola, Egypt, Japan, NZL, Malaysia, Senegal, Spain, Ukraine, Uruguay and Venezuela and half at war with the US (who abstained).

Again ... John Bolton's comments (he should be your hero) and reflect.

As for Executive Order ... your man said he was against them. Are you calling him, a liar?

Oh for some intelligent comment

Angry Tory said...

Vet: the point is that Netanyahu told McCully: "If you continue to promote this resolution from our point of view it will be a declaration of war.".

That's a phone call between the Head of Government of Israel and NZ's foreign minister. That is an official, binding, albeit informal government-to-government communication. Under longstanding interpretations of the Hague and Geneva conventions, that is a conditional declaration of war.

It has exactly the same status in international law as another famous conditional phrase: "Unless we heard from them by 11 o'clock that they were prepared at once to withdraw their troops from Poland, a state of war would exist between us." That was Ambassador to Foreign Minister: so McCully to Netanyahu is even more serious than that - if it's possible.

You probably the next line by heart: I certainly do: "I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently this country is at war with Germany."

Israel's government said to NZ's government: if you continue to promote the resolution, that is a declaration of war".
NZ's government continued to promote the resolution.
Consequently this country is at war with Israel.

Does it matter? It's a legality. The Israeli embassy hasn't even left Wellington yet - although one thing the laws of war makes very clear is that NZ must grant the diplomats and other citizens in NZ safe passage out of the country - we can't inter their diplomats or tourists. I don't know Israeli law, but I'd imagine that a state of war would give Netanyahu plenipotentiary powers e.g. to impose sanctions or whatever, without e.g. having to wait for the Knesset. It also means any Israelis that do anything to harm the NZ economy (and vice versa) can be shot as spies; but lawful combatants in military uniforms must be treated under the Geneva conventions etc.

I don't know what Netanyahu said to the UK, or France, or Russia, or China, all of whom voted for the resolution. I bet he didn't say "if you continue .. .this will be a declaration of war". But he did say that to NZ, and his government has not recanted. Saying "there will be no sanctions at the current time" is like Chamberlain saying "the RAF will not drop bombs on Germany at the current time - just leaflets instead".

No prime minister, no foreign minister, no president can say (or tweet) the words "declaration of war" without meaning them. You just can't. I'm sure if NZ had its own nukes, Netanyahu would not have said that to us. But he did.

Psycho Milt said...

In a turbulent short history that has a modern entity born out of millennia of Jewish connection to what Christendom regards as The Holy Lands...

Yes, yes, blah blah blah. Skipping past the oratory, we're talking about a fairly basic legal question that the NZ government managed to answer correctly: yes, actually it is still illegal to colonise territory captured by conquest. I'm willing to give credence to almost any level of incompetence or duplicity by a National Party government in general and Murray McCully in particular, but not even they could get the answer to that one wrong.

Angry Tory said...

John Bolton's comments: "Nations that affirm their votes should have their relations with Washington adjusted accordingly. In some cases this might involve vigorous diplomatic protests. But the main perpetrators in particular should face more tangible consequences."

By mean perpetrators Bolton means us. No question. I doubt the US is likely to invade NZ: Were anyone but TRUMP president, I'd think it very likely the US would nuke Wellington: I still think it is unlikely, but not off the table. Economic sancations, or even restrictions on US exports of chemo, Boeing parts, or e.g. internet routing would really hurt the economy. Certainly the visa waiver program is probably gone. And yes, TRUMP doesn't need an executive order at time of national emergency to e.g. forbid Air NZ (or indeed any flights from NZ) for landing in the US.

Mike said...

"actually it is still illegal to colonise territory captured by conquest."

Sounds fair enough, yet an assertion based on a false premise.

Psycho Milt said...

. That is an official, binding, albeit informal government-to-government communication.

An official, binding, informal communication? Very good, that's one of your better ones.

Psycho Milt said... assertion based on a false premise.

So, on one side we have the entire UN Security Council and pretty much every other country in the UN saying yes it's illegal to colonise territory occupied via conquest, and on the other side we have the colonisers saying otherwise. Gosh, I wonder which side's correct?

Anonymous said... pretty well nailed it in your first post. There will not be peace in that area until the Palestinians have a homeland, no if's no but's. There is also no doubt that Israeli Arabs are second class citizens and are over represented in the health stats and under represented in positions of responsibility and power not to mention the jobs market. There is a form of apartheid in Israel, not as blatant as Sth Africa was but there all the same.

Those calling for the destruction of Israel are in the minority and would soon disappear if a Palestinian homeland were to exist.

Talking to the Russian troll is counter productive, he just comes out with even more rubbish that is designed to deceive and confuse, I'm not even going to bother to point out the glaring faults in his summation on the European political future.

Lord Egbut

Anonymous said...

Dodger.....The Obama administration is going flat out trying to Trumpproof the the USA before take over. Doing a good job too, protecting the Arctic from the oilmen and now setting the scene for dialogue that may shape the future. You must also bear in mind that the current Israeli administration do not want dialogue or a two state solution.

Lord Egbut

Gerald said...

Now they have declared war will the mean they won't be stealing our passports?

Angry Tory said...

Nope, but we can shoot any we catch without trial.

Paulus said...

Calm down fellows - this is all positioning rhetoric on all sides.

Have a Happy New Year - nothing will have changed this time next year - jaw jaw jaw !

Angry Tory said...

Positioning rhetoric is one thing: a conditional declaration of war is something else.

Still I'm sure the UK and probably France and the EU won't think much of Israel declaring war on NZ (but probably won't do much).
Russia and China can use this to get more credit in the "rest of the world" and piss of TRUMP just for the fun of it.

Anonymous said...

To me Netanyahu was not declaring war on NZ. He was saying that if the resolution were to pass it would be tantamount to a declaration of war by the UN on Israel.

Perhaps not a shooting war (to start off with) however it will start with sanctions against goods made by the settlements. When this doesn't deter Israel then it will expand to sanctions against Israel proper.

At long last the dreams of the Jihad will come to pass - the world united against their arch foe.

That is why Israel has fought for so long to prevent such a resolution being passed.

As for those who argue that a Palestinian state will bring peace - you are all a touch naive.

Between 1949-67 Gaza and West Bank were in Arab hands - didn't stop the Arabs calling for Israel's destruction.

In 2006 when Israel gave Gaza back unilaterally what happened?

The creation of a prosperous and peace loving democratic state funded by billions of international aid?

No. The people elected Hamas who promptly set about to create a terrorist entity with one goal - to inflict death and misery on Israelis. And you wonder why Israel has little faith in 'peace plans' that involve nothing but them giving up what little territory they hold.


Anonymous said...

When I see uninformed crap like this from someone I've never heard of my instinct is to switch off.

Gaza is a's 41k long and about 8k wide. It is the third most densely populated country in the world. It can't feed itself, it's under permanent embargo from the Israeli's with stop and search at sea the norm It has one port without container was designed to fail. Some bloody homeland, no wonder it's ungovernable. There is no future in Gaza apart from being a training ground for terrorists/freedom fighters and a flash point for future conflict.

For a people who were persecuted nearly to extinction they don't seem to have learned anything from the past. Sometimes you have to stop and tear up the past and start afresh.

Lord Egbut

Adolf Fiinkensein said...


I didn't know you were a raghead as well as a socialist.

What are the dimensions of that hell hole of misery, Monaco?

Anonymous said...

Ever been to Monaco? I thought not. As we have long known that you are geographically challenged and tuck your shirt into your underpants I would like to put your post forward for the most "Imbecilic post" of 2016 award.

The 50,000 citizens of Monaco live closer to a supermarket than most New Zealanders and it is not even in their's in France.

Lord Egbut

DenMT said...

It is fine comedy watching the NZ blogospheres assembled legions of grumpy old codgers tripping over each other to affirm the validity of Israels claim to land over the green line as supported by nothing more either a historical, spiritual connection, military conquest, or bits of both.

Or would be, if there weren't real people, with real livelihoods directly threatened.


Gerald said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Adolf's blog has for some time been a 'Gerald-free zone' as a result of his or her failure to adopt common courtesy.

Henceforth it is a 'Legbut-free zone.'

And for those few who are nterested, yes, Adolf has visited Monaco.

Noel said...

I'm confused. I thought this thread was on Doggers page?

Gerald said...

Maybe Dogger and Adolf are one. Bit like Dr J and Dr H.

Noel said...

Ahh no Gerald.
That would be Dr. J and Dr J.

Anonymous said...

Where's your blog etiquitte now Adolf?
Threadjacking indeed.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...


A simple mistake. The message stands, however.