Thursday, December 1, 2016

DEATHLY QUIET ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE FENCE

and so it should be with another 'rogue' poll showing Labour down 3.5% to just 23% which would give them just 28 seats in a House of 120 with the Little fella on the cusp of not making it back into Parliament.   This is unprecedented.  The reality is however there will be no BBQ driven Coup d'etat.     It's too late for Labour to contemplate changing leaders.  They're stuck with Little ... their bed, lie on it.

Paul Scott will be devastated too that his poster boy's Party has dropped 2% down to 8%.  It has a very big hill to climb to reach his predicted 15-17%.   Memo for Paul.   It doesn't help your cause to argue in the name of your Party that Obama & Clinton should be shot without trial and hung upside down in Washington Square.

The winner (apart from National up 1.5% to 49.5%) is the Greens up 3% to 14.5%.   Seems they're reaping the benefit of the MoU and harvesting off the soft Labour vote.  Long may that continue in spades.   Simply fascinating that Labour appears likely to throw sitting MP Rino Tirikatene to the wolves in Te Tai Tonga and stand aside in Nelson giving the Greens a clear run at both seats in return for stitch up deals in Ohariu and elsewhere.  

An interesting side bar to all of this is the rapprochement between the Maori Party and Mana where it appears they will not be standing candidates against each other.   Whether Hone can defeat Kelvin Davis is a moot but you certainly have to think the Maori Party will fancy their chances in both Hauraki-Waikato, where the sitting MP is retiring and where the Maori King has gone feral against Labour, and Te Tai Hauauru where the sitting MP is best described as a drone.     Whatever, should Hone win the seat he will side with Labour and the Greens while the Maori Party will hope to be in a position where they can do deals.

As for the rest ... nothing to say.   Pretty difficult to achieve traction when 65% (up 9%) think the country is headed in the right direction while only 24% (down 5%) say we're doomed.


14 comments:

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

I don't really care how much ground Labour loses to the Greens just so long a National has enough support to keep the mendacious, oleaginous, duplicitous Peters pissing his pants outside the tent.

paul scott said...


The One party State
Basically ‘No Minister” is arguing for a one party State.
That never works out very well. At the present time the corporate welfare State is quietly and cynically demolishing democracy in front of an apathetic public..
That is designate Maori appointees to where elected representatives once were, so that they can suck more juice out of the economy for selected families, and private Empires. It has nothing to do with Maori.
As well Nanny has enlarged the RMA to about 700 pages of further Treaty waffle, and the inclusion of Iwi participation.
In other words the 5th National Government , contrary to everything it does not stand for, is now forwarding separatism and Co-Governance with some white and some Maori tribal leaders.

New Zealand will reverse this legislation, which enables co-Governance with Maori / Mani. / and Hone [ “you white mother fuckers” ]
Soon enough we will we get the Asian community on side, give them equal voting power you know; and the ball will really roll out of Nanny’s hands.

The Co-Governance treaty trick is treason to democracy. Selling out legitimate votes to appointees is treason to democracy. John Key is a traitor to democracy.
“No Minister” is as morally missing on this issue as is Kiwiblog propaganda.

NZ First.
It is likely NZ First will take 14% of the votes at the 2017 Immigration and Democracy election. 17% is a good target
If I were kicked out of the party for some personal aside about the Clinton /Obama extra judicial death squads well so be it. That would free up about 12 months .

“No Minister” might want a one party State, but you are not going to get it.
About 400,000 New Zealanders won’t have it.
John Key will retire mid 2018.and maybe a nice corporate job with the UN promoting the World State.
Yeah, then Winston Peters PM. Only for a few years, you know, end of NZ dual sovereignty, Regional development, and that sort of thing, you’ll get to like it.

The Veteran said...

Gueez Paul ... drival. I'm not arguing for a one party state and you know it. Don't put words in my mouth. I'm reporting what the polls tell us the people saying. Your bluster cuts no mustard with me and neither does your trying to rewrite history re the RMA. National is long committed to the rewrite of the Act to give economic development a kick start. That was opposed by all parties of the left including NZ First ... read Hansard. After the by-election the parliamentary dynamic changed and the only way to get it through was to reach out to our support parties for their support. That required compromise ... not perfect but that's the cards you're dealt with in a MMP Parliament.

Just why John Key should retire in 2018 (and in saying that you appear to be conceding the 2017 election to National) when he looks set for another six years by which time your man will be ...... !!!!???? (and certainly not PM). You don't get to be PM with 8% (or 14% support).

Are you announcing that NZ First is to repeal the Treaty ... if you are then Maori would have an interesting case in law for wanting all the land back.

Finally, when is your mob going to pay the money back you stole.

Angry Tory said...

NZs next PM after Key probably isn't in Parliament.

Labour is dying and will never again be part of government.

NZF will last only as long as Winston does.

The Greens are only ever a niche party for commies who hate actual workers so much they can't bring themselves to vote Labour.


When Key and National finally loses in 2021 or 2024 or 2027 it will be to a real hard-right Trumpist party voted by hardworking Kiwis who have realised Key isn't even Labour Lite any more - they're just Labour.

Key will lose to a party lead by Paul Henry, or more likely, Cam Slater. And then (like the US). NZ will learn what real government is like!
No more unions. No more benefits. No more government schools or government hospitals or WFF or tax credits or subsidies. No more bludgers, protestors, strikers, or terrorists.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

AT

Come on. Why not go the full Monty?

No more New Zealanders.

Anonymous said...

It's too early to call the election off a poll before Christmas.

The new year will see significant change to Nationals support when the public realise what has happened to the RMA and a couple of Waitangi treaty settlements I'm aware of become public.

Winston first will do well, but not to PS desired levels.

The real winner will be the no vote as people won't vote for the Nats and they can't bring themselves to vote for any of the others. The no vote will play into the lefts hands. It seems there's only the rabid left remaining support for Liabour & the Greens, but it's all they need...

Paranormal

Anonymous said...

Polls eh!...spot on as usual. :-))))))

The last time I saw the post from PS it was signed by someone called Douglas Aitkins.. words slightly changed as it was on an English site

Lord Egbut ..... nemesis of the Russian hard right.

paul scott said...

Gravedoggers rewrite history of the RMA.

"" National is long committed to the rewrite of the Act to give economic development a kick start. That was opposed by all parties of the left including NZ First ... read Hansard. After the by-election the parliamentary dynamic changed and the only way to get it through was to reach out to our support parties for their support. That required compromise""


The compromise is co-govervance of the entire fabric of the RMA with IWI.
When we say IWI we mean a few tribal leaders who may be designate Maori.
This co-governance requires agreement on each an every RMA hearing consent.
This is what we mean by treachery to the democracy of the voters.
This is how Nanny compromises.
Nanny is a cynical trader of New Zealanders' property rights, and that ain't drivel, its real.
Gravedoggers rewrite history of the RMA.

"" National is long committed to the rewrite of the Act to give economic development a kick start. That was opposed by all parties of the left including NZ First ... read Hansard. After the by-election the parliamentary dynamic changed and the only way to get it through was to reach out to our support parties for their support. That required compromise""

The compromise is co-govervance of the entire fabric of the RMA with IWI.
When we say IWI we mean a few tribal leaders who may be designate Maori.
This co-governance requires agreement on each an every RMA hearing consent.
This is what we mean by treachery to the democracy of the voters.
This is how Nanny compromises.
Nanny is a cynical trader of New Zealanders' property rights, and that ain't drivel, its real.
See for yourself in the next election.

I can't remember stealing any money, but I do remember blundering mis-representation.

Anonymous said...

"long meandering diatribes are often used in order to make answers on a blog impossible
therefore shutting down debate".

Is "Talent" on tonight?

Lord Egbut....only NZ would think this guy is real.

The Veteran said...

Egbut ... anyone who would advocate the non judicial murder of the President of the US and Secretary Clinton ain't for real.

For that person holed in in Bangkok where he can indulge his fetish for 'maids' ... I can understand why you would want to airbrush out of history the $155k your Party stole to fund the 2005 election and then connived with Labour to retrospectively validate the rort.

As for the RMA Reform Bill. I would prefer to see what comes out of the Select Committee process. I well recall how the Seabed and Foreshore legislation was touted as the beginning of the end ... the reality is that nothing much changed. The RMA already provides for Iwi consultation and if the Bill manages to codify that in a way that 'participation' in the process means just that then I, for one, am relaxed about it. Overarching all that is the oft stated position of government is that no-one owns the water ... the government, regional and local government manages that resource on behalf of all New Zealanders.

Anonymous said...

Vet, I envy your optimism with RMA etc.

The sad fact that Nats are even considering co-governance with Maori shows just how far they have slipped. The treaty settlements I am aware of are in a similar vein. They go against NZs constitutional norms. Unelected race based determination over private property rights is a long way from acceptable for most New Zealanders.

Clarkulas poorly advised Seabed & Foreshore Act started the belief that government riding roughshod over property rights was acceptable. Sadly it has led us to the Nats forgetting the swell of support for Brash's Orewa support. The Nats will burn off support just as quickly as they gained it from Orewa.

Paranormal

The Veteran said...

Paranormal ... as I said, I shall reserve judgement until I see what comes out of the Select Cttee process. The chattering classes talk about co-governance ... the Bill talks about 'participation' in process and I want to see exactly what that means.

Treaty settlements are just that ... resolution of agreed wrongs and the reality is that this process has just about run its course with the pending (I hope) settlement of the Ngapuhi claim (provided Ngapuhi can get its act together). My personal view is that the WT can now be wound up and that future claims should be processed through the courts as a civil matter.

I acknowledge however there are risks with that. The government is not obliged to accept WT recommendations whereas the Court process can be finite but I think, on balance, that is the way to go. The Maori Party will have a different view and we will need to see post the election where the cards fall.

The original Bill was better legislation but didn't fly because United Future and Winston First decided to play politics.

Anonymous said...

Veteran....enlighten me, how and why did the United Russia party nick $155K?

To soon to quote polls after the last catastrophe.

Lord Egbut

Anonymous said...

Vet, if treaty settlements just righted wrongs I would have no problem with them.

Wait until the public see what the Nats are doing in some of the upcoming settlements. Admittedly it's driven by the ideological youth at the treaty settlement office, but it will be owned by the Nats. The RMA proposals are tame by comparison when it comes to removing ratepayer democracy. You should be asking the parliamentary wing of your party just what are they thinking in an election year.

Paranormal