Sunday, July 24, 2016


The rather predictable news that the so called 'Auckland Peace Squadron' will be out in force on the Waitemata in November trying to block a US Navy ship from entering the harbour comes at no great surprise.

No matter that the ship will be part of an international naval flotilla comprising ships from over a dozen countries, including most Pacific rim states along with the United Kingdom and France, here for the sole purpose of participating in 'Operation Neptune' ... the ceremonies to mark the 75th anniversary of the establishment of the Royal New Zealand Navy.

No matter that none of the ships will be nuclear armed or powered.   No matter that New Zealand's anti-nuclear legislation won't be compromised in any way, shape or form.   It's nothing more than some good old fashioned American bashing from a disparate group who see the United States as the embodiment of everything that is wrong in the world today.   For them Venezuela and North Korea represent the good guys standing up to the evil Uncle Sam.

And the media will of course lap it up ... and should anyone put themselves at risk and get hurt in making their protest then it will all be John Key's fault.   Much like the driver fleeing from police pursuit and crashing his/her car ... and it's all the police's fault.   Sigh.


Noel said...

Geez it right. Its not the APS it's the APA. The latter claiming they are going to put a flotilla in the way of all war ships regardless of the country of origin.

On confirmation of the non nuclear status of the US participant there is no reason for the APS to raise their sails again.

But then again my contribution could be disingenuous which is another word for lying.

The Veteran said...

Noel ... (1) the APS is an 'arm' of APA and (2) listening to their 'lady' spokesman on radio and she made it very clear they would be directing their protest against the Americans as a warmongering nation.

If you are right then the intention of the APS to protest against the RNZN is even more reason to call them out as the idiot fringe.

Anonymous said...

In 2006 Mr Key told the world at large that "NZ's nuclear legislation will remain intact".

So according to the current laws any visiting ship must have confirmed that it is neither nuclear powered or carrying nuclear weaponry. If this is the case then targeting a US ship is real dog in the manger stuff and should be condemned but if the US hasn't made such a declaration then they should be targeting Mr Key for being a bloody chancer, telling porkies, aiding and abetting and being a general tosser.

Lord Egbut the always wrong.

The Veteran said...

Egbut ... you're wrong, read the legislation. In accordance with S9 of the Act the proposed entry of a foreign warship requires the approval of the PM. In considering whether to approve entry of a warship the he (the PM) "shall have regard to all relevant information and advice on the strategic and security interests of NZL". The legislation goes on to state that the he may only grant approval to such warships "if the PM is satisfied that such warships will not be carrying any nuclear explosive device upon their entry into the internal waters of NZL".

The realty is that there is a large volume of publicly available information on different countries' nuclear strategies and the nuclear weapons status of different types of military assets, buttressed by that available from our own intelligence sources, to allow NZL (the PM) to make it's own independent assessment concerning the proposed ship visit.

Nothing, zip, zero, about requiring a country (in this case the US or perhaps China/UK/France/India) to make any such declaration.

Between 1 July 2015 and 9 June 2016 MFAT provided six submissions to the PM seeking clearance for potential foreign naval ship visits to NZL.

Not a big deal and it's just that this time a US ship is involved that the uninformed should seek to box at shadows when there are no shadows.

Your descriptive of the PM is unfortunate and untrue and based on ignorance of the legislation.

Anonymous said...

The UK and France do not have a problem declaring ships being nuclear free. but up until now the US policy has been neither to confirm or deny. So in effect the US Dept defence has told our PM that the visiting ship is nuclear free in order that he can follow the legislation.

So can the PM, or you on behalf of the Government, now tell the nation that the all the ships visiting are nuclear free or has he overridden the legislation on whim without asking the US knowing what the answer will be........mind your own business?

Lord Egbut

Redbaiter said...

How do they get away with this bullshit??

I'll tell you.

The media won't tell us the truth about the background to these protest groups.

Mostly made up of globally connected communists.

And why won't the media tell us.

Because the gutless lily livered twerps who call themselves the National Party are too stupid and to spineless to give the media any kind of kick up the arse and make them tell the truth.

The Nationals as a whole would actually shit their pants if any one of them dared to even use the word "communist" in any public forum.

They are too dopey and two yellow to call out communism and have been for decades.

Consequently the media gets away with glossing over the real motivation behind these groups.

Fine, the groups blocking the American ships are the ones causing the real problem, but they wouldn't be half as effective if the media reported the full truth to the public.

They don't, and the lamers in National remain mute. They always prefer surrender to fight.

Hopeless as usual. Communists themselves many of them, and too deeply immersed in the ideology to even recognise that fact.

Anonymous said...

In order to make your argument coherent please describe which communist ideology you are comparing them to.

Are they committed to the Nth Korean ideology?
Or are they influenced by the Russian style communism?
Perhaps it is the easy oasy socialist style of communism.
Maybe their heart lies with the original communists of the Paris commune 1870.

There is no single Islam, communism or capitalism but there are many adaptations of original ideas...some good, some bad.

Lord Egbut

Noel said...

Do a Crown Minerals type amendment to what ever Act covers the harbour and make it 2kms instead of 500meters. At that distance the media will have difficulty presenting a shot of protest action.

Johno said...

Egbut is spouting nonsense as usual - since 1994 the USN does not carry nuclear weapons on surface vessels, period. They don't need to make a declaration for any particular vessel.

Noel said...

"They don't need to make a declaration for any particular vessel":
They do if they choose an SSBN

Anonymous said...

Quite right Johno....well done, this point seems to have escaped the media as well. But you can get your point across without being aggressive though....and supplying a reference helps.

This is best summary I have read nad includes NZ's stand..

However the legislation also covers nuclear power of any sort including propulsion and now that portable nuclear generator the size of a small bathroom has been revealed the question of neither confirm or deny is still with us.

Lord Egbut

The Veteran said...

Egbut ... you normally do your homework but this time and sadly you are off the pace. The legislation does not address the question of confirm or deny. It requires the PM to make an independent assessment
based on expert advice that that any proposed naval visit does not compromise our anti-nuclear legislation. Not a big deal and this regularly happens as a matter of course and, as I commented earlier, in the past 11 months there have been six such requests and these have been processed without any great hue and cry. America accepts the invitation and suddenly you go off on a tangent.

Johno too rightly pointed out that USN surface vessels do not carry nukes. Their policy change of two decades plus ago is well recognised and understood. Actually Nikki Hargar (bless his cottin pickin sox) has it right when he said in a recent article (for which he was caned by the anti-everything lobby) that the whole question of American surface ship visits was much ado about nothing.

Red ... you are pissing me off calling me and my Party communist. You know nothing, are nothing, and your puerile ramblings indicate a disturbed personality with a quite unhealthy fixation that would do Joseph McCarthy proud. I challenge you to stand for Parliament. Put your money where your mouth is and see how far you get ... a forfeited deposit beckons in spades.

Johno said...

Noel: "They do if they choose an SSBN" ... I said "surface vessels". There's no way they'll send a 'boomer'.


Egbut, it is extremely easy to tell if a ship is conventionally or nuclear powered and all the vessels are well known anyway. There is nil chance of sneaking in a nuke powered vessel without everyone knowing.

Redbaiter said...

Vet, you proved me right with your own actions.

Here you are writing a 250 word post about COMMUNISTS blocking US ships, and yet somehow you get through the WHOLE THING without using the word COMMUNIST.

I don't believe in holding back in using the word Vet, because when we do so we're playing into their hands.

I use the word as frequently as I can. Shove it down their damn throats, is what I say.

Damn commies get off the hook far too often.