Monday, June 13, 2016


On Saturday I mused on travel currently undertaken in the offshore island.

Gerald in a rather inane comment made a reference to my views on Islamic migration and the accompanying inability for Muslims  to accept the mores and customs of an adopted country with a warning for all Muslims in the North Island to keep a low profile due to the threat I present.

Well Ger how do you view the slaughter of over fifty patrons of a club in Orlando that is, or should that be, was, a mecca for Homosexuals.

Having a distinctively Islamic sounding name that would convince a Twit Twyford of certainty as a clue,  coupled with a suggested notion "Omar" was incensed by observing two men kissing recently  and the known fundamental attitude of Muslims to Gay men, now supported by a claim "Omar" was acting in the name of ISIS, things are stacking up that maybe, just maybe this most recent slaughter is the work of a Lone Wolf nut case.

No this whole tragic mess is down to how Islam views Gay men and that this bastard took the opportunity that the free democratic state that is the US presents, to perpetrate another act of terrorism.

The link to ISIS may well be proven to be a getting on the band wagon after the event but however it plays out there are hundreds and hundreds of US citizens mourning loved ones who were in the wrong place at the wrong time and now grieving for youths who paid with their lives for just being who they were.

So Gerald, here is your chance to give us all the benefits of your massive accumulated wisdom,  as Nike suggests, just do it.



You know how to stop such incidents.
Obama knows.
No, it's not a bigoted religion that causes such things.
It's a lack of gun control.
How did such an ass, make it the the White House and stay there.
Oh that's it, it's because he's black.
Surely, after seeing how picking a president for PC reasons produces disaster, the Americans can't be so stupid as to pick Hillary because she has a fanny.
I have the feeling Donald Trump was elected tonight.

Gerald said...

When you reach the northern tip keep driving.

gravedodger said...

As I thought Gerald is indeed a total moron with the intellect of a dead mollusc.

Found any rational discourse on this latest Islamic inspired assault on 21st century civilisation just too difficult did you Ger.

Or did you concur with the vicious attempt to kill as many humans affronting your indoctrinated beliefs as possible with an automatic rifle because it would be just too difficult to herd fifty gay men to a second floor window to end their abomination in the eyes of the paedophile self proclaimed prophet c700 AD, nice Gerald, nice.

Wishing death on someone you disagree with has all the hallmarks of a demented socialist, keep it up, your comments say more than anyone needs to know about you and your values.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

It has been said Trump is one terrorist attack away from the presidency.

Over the next couple of weeks we'll see how accurate that assumption turns out to be.

Noel said...

"No this whole tragic mess is down to how Islam views Gay men"

Couple of points
In Islam homosexuality it labelled a sin.
But Baptists Jehovahs witnesses Reformed Churches also see it as a sin.

Anglicans classified it as “not in confidence with scriptures”.
Catholics although not calling it a sin label it an “objective disorder”.

I'm guessing it's not only the Islamic's that hold homophobic views.

Fairfacts you identify what we have known for a couple of decades now. If you have a disturbed person and he wants to kill a lot of people it's much easier in the US.

Not sure how Trump with his support for the NRA is going to change that.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...


Like most critics you completely miss the point.

Homosexual activity is a sin. So in fucking your neighbour's wife. So is murder, theft, lying, greed and on and on.

We are all sinners.

The difference is, Christians regularly forgive sinners while Muslims prefer to behead them, throw them off tall buildings or burn them alive.

I suggest you look up the hymnn "Amazing Grace' and have a look at the words

"Amazing grace .... that saved a wretch like me" Then look up the history of the author who was a slave trader of the worst kind.

By way of example, I abhor homosexual activity but I have no hatred of homosexuals. It is not for me, or any other Christian, to be judgemental. What they do is between them and God. It is their business, not mine. I am required to love my neighbour which means ALL my neighbours, that's all. I'm not required to be a little tin god in a pulpit, handing down judgement on you and all God's other people. In fact I am forbidden from so doing. "Judge not, lest ye be judged" and 'Throw not the first stone."

Somebody somewhere coined the trite phrase 'Love the sinner, hate the sin.' While oversimplistic, it kinda sums things up pretty well.

Far too many people use the old testament to denigrate Christianity when Christianity largely turns the old rules from the old testament on their head.

Eric said...

@Adolf - very sage. Don't believe I have seen that message expressed better ever.

Anonymous said...

@Adolf, Eric - agree well put sir!

Gerald said...

I didn't warn Orlando because I don't have a list of all the deranged people in their neighborhood.

On the bright side I did warn North Islanders.

Drive fast at the last bit. You'll make a bigger splash.

Anonymous said...

Ignore Dogger always be a point where he will go ad hominem.

The Veteran said...

Adolf ... your post should be required reading for all.

Angry Tory said...

I have the feeling Donald Trump was elected tonight.

We can only hope so! The shooter was a registered D/RAT. Just like the last one. And the one before that.

We have a choice of electing someone of the same party as the last three mass terrorists - or electing someone who has sworn to hunt down and kill everyone involved - using nukes if necessary!

paul scott said...

Fairfax [8.28 ] I think that regardless of gun control, people who want guns will get them, and those without will have no defence.
General, I greatly fear the lone or Democrat sponsored nutcase who can get through Trump security. To lose Trump now would be a disaster.

The Veteran said...

Donald Trump IS a disaster in waiting, a loose cannon and a lot of other nasty things as well. One thing he ain't ... he's not a Republican ... He's Trump.

David said...

Homosexual activity is a sin. So in fucking your neighbour's wife. So is murder, theft, lying, greed and on and on.

A sin is a crime against god. Those of us who have no gods do not sin. If you wish to have gods, feel free to sin.

Murder and theft are crimes, not sins, and they are punished as such. Greed is not a crime, greed underpins capitalism.

We are all sinners.

Nope, only those who choose to be sinners are. The rest of us are humans, trying to get on with our lives as best we can. We are not sinners.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is where religion gets you. It matters not what religion, all religion poisons everything.

The difference is, Christians regularly forgive sinners while Muslims prefer to behead them, throw them off tall buildings or burn them alive.

Christians have an arrogance that lets them think they can forgive sinners. Brock Turner has been forgiven by his family and his church, even though his offending was not against either of them. The only person with power to forgive him is his victim.

Christians have the same longing as Muslims to kill gays, its just that in Western civilised nations, we have secular laws to prevent that. Homosexuals are not so fortunate in the Christian nations of Africa where they are regularly jailed or murdered. Some of the most recent anti gay laws in Africa have come about at the urging of American Evangelicals. It is the same in Russia where an unholy alliance of Putin and the church are forcing gays to the margins, to be kicked and beaten like rabid dogs.

You see, the issue is not Islam per se, it is all the Abrahamic religions.

Pastor Steven Anderson has celebrated these murders, claiming that there "50 less pedophiles in this world."

Texas' Lt Gov Dan Patrick tweeted God cannot be mocked” and that “A man reaps what he sows.”

“For whatever reason, Barack Obama has chosen the promotion of homosexualism and transexualism now as one of his major achievements,” LaBarbera continued. “This is really the president that has promoted in this area the greatest moral evil by far of any president of the United States.” Peter La Barbera, President of Americans for Truth about Homosexuality.

I could go on, but all this love the sinner, hate the sin is making me sick to the stomach. People are dead for nothing more than enjoying a night out. All your religion and all your prayers will not stop the senseless killing in the name of gods. It is only when we accept each other for who we are, rather than what we represent that we will grow.

David said...

And yes, juts to show us how great he his, Trump managed to make it all about him, not the victims.

David said...

And they DO exist.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

David, at first I thought you had some brains but I stand corrected. I was wrong.

Anonymous said...

What is required reading is the editorial of the Times of London. All of this outrage is predicable and sadly, like the US newspapers, missing the point entirely. Incredibly lax gun laws are not mentioned but religion is, probably because it sells papers.

In London there have been three incidents where Muslims with mental health issues tried to knife passers bye. They cannot even acquire a shotgun let alone a M16. The deaths from culpable homicide by firearms exceed all the US deaths on the battlefield from 1917 on. A man was stopped in New York on his way to a Gay rights meeting loaded for bear.....not a Muslim.

Loved the comments from the US after the Paris shootings....serves you Euros right for not allowing your citizens to be armed that sort of shit would not happen in Texas....quite right, it was Florida.

The crazies are out there and barbaric gun laws and wimpy pollies worried about votes do not help.

Lord Egbut

Anonymous said...

Once again Flinko is generalising without taking into consideration a countries development.

In the UK and Europe there are Muslim gay clubs and four or five openly gay Immans. This beheading stuff you spout is just ignorance and hatred. Because a group of crazies in a desert have warped ideas it doesn't mean the mainstream world follows suit. In fact the crazies in the desert are your direct equivalent.

Lord Egbut

Anonymous said...

"David, at first I thought you had some brains but I stand corrected. I was wrong."

It's not just the Dogger. Adolf resorts to ad hominem too.

gravedodger said...

Meanwhile I wait for Gerald to make a reasoned argument about the tragedy that might add to understanding, even answers.

Hundreds mourn their dead youth denied their basic human rights by a nutter following his beliefs little changed for a thousand years.

"Gay Imams"? they wont be leading the Islamic faith in Saudi, Iran or ISIS controlled areas.

Take off your bloody blindfold not that a rag will reduce the mindless terror for Gay Men tossed off upper floors to the pavement below with bugger all due process under the very worst predations of Sharia Law.
Perchance any survive the concrete collision they will then be stoned to end their ordeal.
It sure reduces recidivists I guess.

Gerald said...

Haven't reached the Cape yet. Get on with it.

David said...

Thanks Adolf, shows that you have no rebuttal to my arguments. Can you prove anything I said above to be incorrect or untrue?

Love The Sinner, Hate the Sin is really just a code for Christian hatred as per these two articles, written by Christians.

David said...

Gravedogger, I have posted a list at John Stringer's blog of Nations where homosexuality is illegal AND where the majority population is Christian. It isn't just Muslims who are good at doing hate.

I have a gay grandson and a lesbian step daughter and I fear for both of them when I see how quickly certain groups are ready to attack and marginalize them, not because they are bad people, but because they live a different lifestyle to the majority. To paraphrase Shakespeare :

I am a Gay. Hath not a Gay eyes? Hath not a Gay hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions? Fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer as a Christian is? If you prick us, do we not bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that.

Anonymous said...

Short memory Dodger....remember Jonestown. Pesky Christians letting the side down.......just remind the blog how many children were murdered in the name of a "Christian" religion.

Lord Egbut Nobacon

PS. Don't forget to wind your windows fully shut.

Anonymous said...

Hell we could go on for years. Don't forget Doggers is aways going on about a pedaphile prophet. None of that in Christian history.

gravedodger said...

Egg: Jonestown was a "CULT", as was Waco and even Manson used Christlike images to psychologically dominate his moronic followers who checked their reason and intellect at reception as they entered the thrall of the megalomaniac leaders.

Luther, Knox, Calvin et al all saw the serious depredations of the Catholic Church as something to be broken down on the march to enlightenment that was being driven by a widening of knowledge among the non clerical populace.

Your effort to introduce Jim Jones and his mass murder into the homophobic actions of an Islamist nutter who claimed to be incensed by two men kissing weeks earlier and then calling 911 to announce his allegiance to ISIS at the onset of his murderous rampage is a fail.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

The ever reliable David introducs yet another straw man.

As far as I'm aware, 'Christian' countries don't throw homosexuals off high buildings.

Good heavens David, not too long ago Homosexual activity was illegal in NZ.

Anonymous said...

That pretty well describes the ISIS CULT. There are a thousand lone wolves out there ready to commit mayhem and all they need is a peg to hang their hat on. This just another in a long line of attacks on US gay cubs that have killed as many again.

Selling an assault rifle to anyone should be illegal as it's only purpose is to kill humans. All other fire arms should have tough background checks . They can do it with visa's for non US citizens. A friend of mine had to take a train to London (120 miles)
and queue for three hours for a two minute interview at the US embassy on the basis that the he spent two days in Iran on business 5 years ago.If he was up to no good he would have used an internet cafe.......kneejerk or what.

The US tries to control non US citizens but is rubbish at controlling their own.

Lord Egbut Nobacon

Anonymous said...

Here's one of the reasons that this was allowed to happen.....

Lord Egbut

David said...

Adolf and Doger, time to continue your education.

Agreed, Duncan was not thrown from a building, but thrown he was and by those in a position of State power.

David said...

Further to Lord Egbut's post above, the Rethuglican dominated Congress continually blocks the CDC from enquiring in to gun violence. Why is that?

Did you know that you can be on the FBI no fly list as a terror suspect, but you cannot be prohibited from stocking up on weapons to commit terrorist acts? Why? Because NRA.

“Why don’t we treat this like everything else we use? We used to have really bad auto fatality rates. The auto fatality rates have actually dropped, precipitously, drastically, since I was a kid. Why is that? We decided to have seatbelt laws. We decided to have manufacturers put air bags in place. We decided to crack down on drunk driving and texting. We decided to redesign roads so that they were less likely to have a car bank. We studied what is causing these fatalities using science and data and evidence, and then we slowly treated it like the public health problem that it was.

We are not allowed to use any of that when it comes to guns because when you propose anything it is suggested that we are trying to wipe away gun rights and promote tyranny and martial law. Do you know that Congress will not allow the Center of Disease Control to study gun violence? They are not allowed to study it because the notion is that by studying it, the same way we do with traffic accidents, somehow that is going to lead to everyone’s guns being confiscated. If you buy a car and want to get a license—first of all you have to get a license, people have to know you know how to drive—you don’t have to do any of that in respect to buying a gun.”

Care to show where Obama is wrong in any of this?

gravedodger said...

I will state why it will not make the difference you wish for.
Any adjustment of current gun law will never apply to those with a belief in breaking the law as their right.
Oh yes the law abiding will eventually succumb to the hassling and coercion but the scrotes, never.

Don't agree, just do a bit of research on Western Sydney and parts of Melbourne where gunshot deaths and woundings increase year on year while Johnnie Howards restraining policies enacted after Port Arthur have little effect on criminals access to weapons.

How many of the 1.3 firearms per person at present claimed to be the US ownership rates will ever be known for sure. That figure relates to the lawful regimes that surround gun sales
NZ has a reasonably comprehensive gun ownership law but it does not apply to the gangs, the stupid or the very rich, nope it only applies to the staid law abiding with a respect for the law even when it can be proven to be stupid.

Under O'Bama's administration gun ownership has swelled exponentially to the point where the blithering idiot is the greatest gun sale promotor ever, bar none.
Even his quoted figures of gunshot deaths are a mirage as they include successful suicides by gunshot as a "shooting death". Poor bastards who choose a gun over the car in the garage, an overdose of drugs, drowning or hanging for whatever reason get lumped in with the 49 tragically slaughtered in Orlando Florida while doing nothing illegal just enjoying themselves.

David said...

NZ has a reasonably comprehensive gun ownership law but it does not apply to the gangs, the stupid or the very rich, nope it only applies to the staid law abiding with a respect for the law even when it can be proven to be stupid.

The same can be said about every law, so should we stop having laws?

Murder is illegal, and yet we have murderers.

Rape is illegal, and yet we have rapists.

And if you want to compare Australia with the US, get your head out of your arse and do some research.

The percentage of homicides committed with a firearm continued a declining trend which began in 1969. In 2003, fewer than 16% of homicides involved firearms. The figure was similar in 2002 and 2001, down from a high of 44% in 1968.

There have been NO mass killings (defined as 5 or more) in Australia since 1996. There were 13 in the 18 years prior to 1996. Can you join the dots?

Contrast that with the US where they have 88 mass shootings THIS YEAR!

And still the lunatics think that easy access guns isn't the problem.

Noel said...

Florida does not recognize the Federal large magazine ban.
If it had the number killed could very well have been less.