Saturday, June 25, 2016


Looks like 'our' flag referendum vote came a year or two too early.     With Brexit a reality I suspect that it can be taken as a given that Scotland will exit the Union.

Here's the New Zealand ensign with the Cross of St Andrew removed.    Like it?   I don't.


Anonymous said...

Nah, my Scottish mates living here say Scotland can't leave because they need the UK to pay the welfare they are addicted to. Scotland can't stand alone and maintain its current lifestyle so pride will take a back seat to welfare.


The Veteran said...

3.16 ... Nicola Sturgeon, Chief Minister, said a few hours ago that a second referendum on independence was 'very much back on the table' and, looking at the way Scotland voted yesterday, it would be a pretty brave call to suggest that the voters will again say 'No'. Brexit has changed the whole dynamic.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...


So where will they get the money?

The Veteran said...

Good question .... North Sea Oil? EU handouts? Visa application fees? Increased haggis exports?
Additional taxes on exported single malts? That great son of Scotland Donald Trump?

In all seriousness can I suggest Scots will vote with their hearts rather than their heads because I'm not sure that the maths stack up.

gravedodger said...

Having my beloved Scotland now addicted to Haggis and Handouts it will be economic suicide to tie themselves to Greece and all the other German dependents now financed without the 250million a week net from UK.

Yes change is a coming and it will need a statesman to negotiate and navigate their new clean boat.
The vituperative, vindictive, vicious remarks from Junkers and others who have forgotten what democracy actually means, and now wish to punish all Brits including the 48.1 percent who responded to the threats and rewards of UK domination from EU either from fear or self interest has a rather unpleasant odour about it.

Similarly for Ulster unless they now wish to Uturn and unite Ireland as one national bloc in Europe.

The Veteran said...

GD ... thought the remarks from Junkers were particularly unfortunate ... for the Brits. Could be the foretaste of very messy divorce. I suspect you're right about Scotland being addicted to handouts ...
bit like the Treaty industry here.

Gueez ... the more I look at it the more I hate what our flag could be.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Naaaah Vet. Scots ALWAYS vote with their wallets.

Anonymous said...

I'm sure you people read comics instead of financial papers. Scotland is the 12th largest economy in the EU. Given it's population the performance is exceptional.

The flag is just a red herring.....the first minister of Scotland has already said some months ago that the flag is historical and would not change as the British empire was also forged by the blood of Scots.

Lord Egbut

Anonymous said...

Good afternoon, and welcome to a brave new EU-free world.

Just to recap: the UK has voted to leave the European Union in a result that came down to just 1.39m votes.

The value of the pound has dropped through the floor. Sinn Fein are calling for a united Ireland. Prime minister David Cameron has resigned. SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon has said that Scotland is looking at a new independence referendum. The Labour party has tabled a motion to get rid of Jeremy Corbyn.

And it's only lunchtime.

Leave campaign leaders Boris Johnson and Michael Gove promised the electorate an awful lot if we voted out, such as spending commitments to the tune of £111bn.

What's less clear, in the light of a fresh summer's day, is whether they actually have any clue whatsoever what the fuck they're going to do. It's not clear that they even really believed they could win.

Just some of the truthy flights of fancy that won't be coming true any time soon include:
1. We aren't going to see a fall in immigration levels

No one in the Leave campaign actually gave any target figures, at any time, ever. Conservative MEP Dan Hannan has already said this morning that people expecting immigration to come down will be "disappointed".
2. We aren't going to have an extra £100 million a week for the NHS

Nigel Farage has already told reporters today that the Leave campaign shouldn't have claimed that.
3. We aren't going to be able to stay in the single market

No other country has a set up like that: both France and Germany have made it abundantly clear that we are not going to be able to have our cake and eat it, ie, take advantage of the free-trade zone without contributing a single penny to it, as Leave says we will.
4. We aren't going to get our sovereignty back

Looks like we're going to get a new prime minister by the end of the autumn Conservative party conference. It'll be a short list of two people, nominated by MPs.

This unelected leader could then theoretically hold office unopposed until a general election has to be called in three year's time.

P.S. We still have the House of Lords. So there's that.
5. We aren't going to save £350m a week

The Leave claim that the UK gives £350m a week to the EU has been thoroughly debunked. But it was still emblazoned on their battle bus right up until the end:

6. We won't remain a world leader in research and development

UK investment in science and universities has dried up since the recession, whereas the EU gave us £7bn in science funding alone between 2007 - 2013.

We're also going to face new barriers to collaboration with European universities and research centres.
7. We aren't going to save £2bn on energy bills

Leave promised we could end VAT on household energy bills. While that's possible, it won't save us any money in reality because we rely on imports for so much of our energy.

Because the pound has fallen, inflation will go up, which means imports and thus our domestic energy bills will cost up to 12 per cent more than they currently do.
8. We aren't going to be a 'greater' Britain

Overnight the UK economy has already slumped from the fifth largest in the world to sixth.

More than £200 billion has already been wiped from the value of the UK stock market - or put another way, 24 years' worth of UK contributions to the EU.

On that bombshell......goodnight

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

I don't think I've ever seen so many grapes so sour.

Noel said...

Oh the irony. Immigration was a driver to Brexit.

Calls now for Calais border agreement to be shelved.

Two years to negotiate Britain out of the EU.
Two years to curtail the Calais agreement.

And three years from now all any migrant has to do it arrive at Dover and claim refugee status.

The Veteran said...

Egbut ... interesting comment. I would add that Moody's have now changed their outlook rating for the UK from 'stable to negative'.

But I would also take issue with those on the 'Remain' side who are claiming that because turnout was less than 75% (72%) and because 'Leave' didn't get to 60% that there should be a second referendum. Talk about changing the goal posts after the event. By their logic and if their were to be a second referendum and in order to overturn the result of the first then the 75% - 60% rule should apply. Wot tosh.

As for the flag. Scotland will get a new flag. It would be a curious argument indeed to suggest that the 'Union' flag representing a union that doesn't exist should continue to feature on our ensign.

Noel said...

"the UK has voted to leave the European Union in a result that came down to just 1.39m votes."

That's more than a 2 percent swing in marginal seats deciding the Australian Election.

Psycho Milt said...

The Scots won't get to join the EU as an independent country because there are current members that don't want to encourage their own separatists. Their application would be vetoed tout suite.

But I would also take issue with those on the 'Remain' side who are claiming that because turnout was less than 75% (72%) and because 'Leave' didn't get to 60% that there should be a second referendum. Talk about changing the goal posts after the event.

Well, yes, but the government should have set that out as a condition before the referendum. Taking a huge leap into the unknown that will at least cause major disruption for a decade and quite possibly turn out to be disastrous, on the basis of a 52% vote, is just insane. They should have put the requirement for a minimum 60% majority on it from the start.

The Veteran said...

PM ... re the Scots. With one small difference; they are already 'In'.

Re the referendum. There have been only three referenda conducted over the whole of the UK (two regarding EEC/EU m'ship and one covering the adoption of the Alternative Vote system. The previous two (to this one) were determined on a simple FPP basis. Cameron would have been accused of trying to screw the result had he proposed otherwise (although if he thought he could have got away with it he probably would have).

But people seem to have forgotten the point. The Referendum is non binding. In the UK 'Parliament' remains sovereign. It is possible that Parliament could vote to remain ... unlikely however; such a move could result in the breakdown of parliamentary democracy.

Psycho Milt said...

Meh. The fact that we did something a stupid way on a previous occasion should never be a reason to do it a stupid way this time.

Also, is Scotland in the EU? The UK is, but an independent country called Scotland isn't.

The Veteran said...

PM ... I agree that having a matter of great constitutional significance determined on a FPP basis was probably wrong ... but I also think that Cameron was between a rock and a hard place. In politics (and the law) precedent does matter and it would have been a very bold Cameron to disregard precedent and face down the charge that he was trying to screw the result in his favor. Perhaps he should have but hindsight is always easy.

If Scotland declares independence, recognized by the international community, then they could apply to join just like any other country ... all I'm suggesting is that they would come to the table with points on the board.

With NI and Ireland it's different should they decide to come together ... on balance I think that's somewhat unlikely (down from very unlikely on Friday) ... but certainly Brexit has let the genie out of the bottle.