Tuesday, February 23, 2016

This new flag ain't for me

Danyl puts it well:
I don’t hate the Lockwood flag. (Probably because I’m not a vexillologist or design expert, unlike everyone else on twitter, suddenly.) I like it more than our current flag. But I think I’ll still vote to keep the current one, mostly because I don’t really like the Lockwood, and if we vote for it we’re stuck with it for many generations. But if we keep the old flag we’ll be forced to change it during the transition to a republic, which may happen during my lifetime.

Also, while I also don’t hate John Key, it did occur to me during the first referendum – when I opened my ballot and stared down at the four options for change, two of which were almost identical, three of which were very similar, and the fourth obviously chosen as a spoiler to promote the other three – that Key’s government really did do a shitty, horrible, clumsy job at this process, and that is not immaterial. Voters like me do get to judge him and punish him for that
.
I realise that 2.5 million voters will never agree on the same design.  But there's more to it than what Danyl says.  I am seriously pissed off at the political subterfuge and subliminal politicking that is now going on, in an attempt to sway public opinion in order to get the result the government (John Key?) wants.  Denying that exists is silly - Stevie Wonder could see it.

So probably for the first time in my life, I'm voting the same way as Danyl.

12 comments:

The Veteran said...

Nick ... I just hope that people vote in the referendum on the merits of the two flags and not on anything else. If we stick with the current ensign there won't be another vote in my lifetime and as long as we understand that then I'll go with the result.

It will be interesting to see just what happens to the Union flag if the Scots decide to go it alone and that might just come back onto the table if the referendum on the UK remaining in the EU is lost. The SNP is strongly against Brexit.

Redbaiter said...

Crap Veteran.

Nick has every right to be pissed at the manipulation, dishonesty and corruption associated with John Key's flag change push.

Lewis Holden attempted to change the flag by referendum some 10 or so years ago, but could only muster around 100K signatures on a petition that needed something like 270K to initiate the process. Then JK took the lead, and provided $26 million of taxpayer money and all of govt’s resources to revitalize Lewis Holden’s original failed project.

He had no real right to do this at all. Any renewed push should have been done the same way as the first, with a referendum financed by those doing the pushing and not by means of a campaign underwritten by $28 million of taxpayer money.

On top of that disgusting abuse of the office of Prime Minster we have the sly trickery used by the pro-change faction. Trying hard to shove a project we don't want and a flag design we don't like down our throats. And using our own money to do it.

John Key and the Nats are worse than Labour. At least Labour fight for a set of principles. They may even be deceptive on occasions, but I can't think of a time when they've been the kind of arrant cheats and manipulators that Textor Crosby surrender monkey John Key and his flag change clique have been.

I'm with Nick. Disgusted at the duplicity of the flag change project and all who are trying so hard to foist it upon us, I hope so much they fail.

When it does, John Key should do the right thing and repay the $28 million cost from his personal fortune. Just a progressive leech.

Anonymous said...

Veteran: I can give you the answer to that. The Scots, almost to man in many polls have said you don't fuck with history or tradition. Hundreds of thousands of Scots went to war under those colours. Yes they love to hate the English but like the Irish when the shit hits the fan they are indivisible. Nothing will change on the Union flag.

Try convincing the Hawiians to get rid of the British Union flag on their state flag and you would be run out of town.

Well said Mr Baits.

Lord Egbut

Anonymous said...

I'm against any new flag simply because its a change for changes sake. The public could really care less.

But I'm REALLY angry at Key for pursuing this when mental health services in Canterbury could have done with $5M of the $26M cost. And so on and so forth....

It's a vanity project which can happen because he has no opposition. And THIS is how he chooses to spend his political leisure time?

Grrrrr....no.

DrCP

Noel said...

I said earlier the process should have been do you want a flag change followed by lets tweak some designs until there is something a majority would accept. To be told you have to something to compare with.

That's worked. Yeah right.

The Veteran said...

Redbaiter ... 'Labour fight for a set of principles' ... like their policy on changing the flag and the fact they are a free-trade Party. Seems to me they take their lead from Grouchp Marx ... 'These are my principles and if you don't like them ... I have others.'

There will be people from all shades of political opinion voting to change the flag ... I won't be one of them because while the current flag has a number of faults the alternative proposed doesn't grab me either. But at least people get to have their say and that's not a bad thing. As for the $26m cost, most of it goes to NZ Post and much of that finds it's way back to Government by way of their dividend.

Noel said...

I walked past the Fire Station and it occurred to me that the favoured option would not accept Deparmental monikers without impinging on the design. The red ensign was been flown at the canp ground. Again how to fit that into it.

Geez how far in the decision anslysis did those on the flag junket actually go?

Anonymous said...

I'll be voting to retain our present flag. It has history, dignity and status. The other, I wouldn't even use it as a dishcloth. But it's the sly and dishonest way the referenda have been foisted on us that really gets my goat. John Key used them in an effort to divert attention from his sellout of NZ's sovereignty to the TPPA. "Kick the blighter up the jacksie and retain the present flag." I say.
(Sgnd) Hairy McCleary

Noel said...

"As for the $26m cost, most of it goes to NZ Post and much of that finds it's way back to Government by way of their dividend."

I know political people are full of shit but postage is only a small percentage of the referendum cost.

"The publicity blitz around selecting the new designs, which begins on Anzac Day next year, will cost $6.7 million, while the two referendums will cost $17.3 million. Other costs will take the overall bill to $25.7 million whether the flag is changed or not."

Anonymous said...


" Geez how far in the decision analysis did those on the flag junket actually go?"

Its estimated the 663,000 dollars would be required to replace Government flags.
Obviously not far enough.

Psycho Milt said...

I am seriously pissed off at the political subterfuge and subliminal politicking that is now going on, in an attempt to sway public opinion in order to get the result the government (John Key?) wants.

I've been pissed off with it since he woke up one morning and decided we should spend millions buying him a legacy. Hopefully this referendum will deliver him a metaphorical slap on the face.

Noel said...

PM I doubt there will be a change.
If there is any consultation the little flag Key is wearing, the same one on the stickers the Chinese are printing to disguise Chilean kiwifruit will have to be discarded.