Wednesday, November 11, 2015

ON YESTERDAY AND LABOUR'S MASSIVE OWN GOALS

One doesn't know quite where to begin ... guess early yesterday morning will do.   On Newstalk ZB Kelvin Davis called John Key 'gutless' for refusing to give 'assistance' to NZ citizens facing deportation from Oz under their crime/good character laws.  

So, what did he want?   When questioned he said that the government should be sending medical personnel to Xmas Island to treat inmates who were about to the 'bashed' by the riot police attempting to restore disorder after rioting broke out reportedly led by New Zealanders (note, this before the event) and against a backdrop of the rioters having armed themselves with machetes, metal bars and petrol bombs.    Davis went further.   He demanded our Government provide legal aid to detainees to enable them to mount appeals against their deportation orders ... give me strength.   This was grandstanding by Davis pure and simple.   They are impossible demands.   Any attempt to carry out the first would lead to a major breakdown in relations between our two countries; the second is nonsensical ... that the taxpayer should be funding the appeals by people who have turned their back on New Zealand and don't want to be here anyway.

Davis repeated the 'gutless' jibe when the Prime Minister entered the House.    They tried to set the PM up, he retaliated and Labour ended up scoring a massive own goal with the public backlash clearly in support of the PM.    Ok, he called Labour out as being seen to support murderers, rapists and child molesters ... he was wrong in that ... he forgot to mention those convicted of robbery, assault and drug dealing.    Of the 585 awaiting deportation 22 are convicted murderers, 34 are child sex offenders while 16 are rapists or guilty of other sex offenses ... and Davis and Labour are shilling for them ... my advice, keep doing it guys and watch and weep as the opinion polls roll out.

Davis/Labour lit the fuse and the bomb exploded in their face.    And isn't it strange how all those fine upstanding people presenting in the media claim to have done little more than 'jaywalking'.   Not helped by MPs like Maori Party co-leader Marama Fox who claimed people were being deported for shoplifting and minor traffic offenses.   I have searched the Oz criminal code ... you don't go to prison for twelve months for shop lifting, you don't go to prison for 'minor traffic offenses.    Then she raises the matter of the 'decorated' soldier being deported for being a member of a motorcycle gang.   Fact ... ex Lcpl Ko Rutene served ( I guess honorably).   He was never decorated.   He received three campaign medals.    In Aust he joined the Rebels Motorcycle Gang.   The Oz government and law enforcement agencies consider the gang to be a criminal organisation and a major supplier of and dealer in drugs.  That's the same gang whose members were deported from NZL when they tried to set up a Chapter here.    Join that gang Ko and don't be surprised if you fail the 'good character' test.

Folks ...beware of believing one side of the story as the gospel truth.

One final note ... it appears the system is working.   It was revealed in Parliament that up to one third of those facing deportation have had their appeals accepted by the Oz authorities.   An inconvenient truth perhaps.

Clearly, I and many others think the NZL government has got its response just about right.   Those from the dark side of politics will disagree because, for them, it's a case of National bad, Labour good and there has to be a rich harvest of votes out from the criminal fraternity.   Pity about good, decent New Zealanders though and let's not even go there and talk about the victims of their crimes.

Updated ... FFS.   You would think Rutene's lawyer would at least get it right.   According to him Rutene is a three times recipient of the Medal of Honor .... I guess he is referring to the Congressional Medal of Honor.   This is a decoration limited to American servicemen/women.   If true it would make Upham look ordinary.   Fact ... Rutene has the NZ Operational Service Medal and two Afghanistan campaign medals ... along with over a thousand other Kiwis.    Sigh


19 comments:

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Judging by the agenda for today's Question Time, Little is pursuing his very own Waterloo.

Psycho Milt said...

Have you considered the fact that what medals a person did or didn't get, or what crimes they committed at some point in the past, or whether you personally think they're a good person or not, aren't appropriate criteria for deciding whether they're entitled to their human rights, and whether their government has any obligation towards them?

pdm said...

Milt - if they have lived in Australia most of their lives the current New Zealand Government is hardly their government.

The Veteran said...

PM ... put simply it's NOT OUR CALL. Oz is a sovereign country and entitled to make its own laws. As for us advocating for 'them' and I thought that's exactly what Key did in his one-on-one with Turnbull but, I repeat, in the end it's THEIR call. As for the suggestion that we should be pursuing the issue through the UN advocated by the Greens ... useless grandstanding measured against direct one-on-one with the Aust PM and ultimately counter-productive in terms of Trans-Tasman relationships..

As I noted in my post, the system appears to be working with one-third of appeals apparently successful. One thing you can be absolutely sure of ... those Kiwis involved in the Xmas Island riot have signed their own deportation warrants. What I want to know is whether Davis encouraged them in any way, shape or form.

Look, some things we might feel uncomfortable with ... much like when your Girl signed our reciprocal rights away with Aust as a trade-off to get visa free entry

JC said...

The other thing to keep in mind is Aussie has had five Prime Ministers in seven years, ie, a good start to the definition of a failing state.

Somehow we have to deal with a bunch of Oz pollies desperately casting around with policies designed to appeal to a fractious and petulant mob to stay in power. Its hard to think of anything more stupid for Davis and co to keep poking a stick at such unstable people when the end result could be none of the deportees get a fair hearing. For all there may be several hundred crims who deserve little consideration there are still several hundred guilty of not much more than a misty character definition.. they and their families will be the real losers of the NZ left's insane attacks and support for the real crooks and rioters.

JC

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

It seems tome kelvin Davis, who started off with so much promise, has this week consigned himself to political oblivion. The Northland Bro vote will go to Harawira, the centre vote move from Labour to National (as a result of this week's political shambles) and Little will make sure his potential rival Davis is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay down on the list.

Andrew Berwick said...

If NZ was running a sensible policy (since unfortunately we can't just shoot them out of hand) we'd either pay Aussie to keep them in Christmas Island, or set up our own detention centre in the Chathams or Wainuiomata or somewhere equally unpleasant and leave them there to rot.

Labour is campaigning for those crims to be dumped onto the streets of Oz. as quickly as possible.
But National is campaigning for them to come back here onto our streets as quickly as possible!

Crims don't deserve to be on the streets.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

And the Labour lunacy continues with a further chuck/walk out of Parliament by Labour's female MPs. (Oh yeah, also the Greens.) They are the only ones with balls.

The Veteran said...

Andrew ... don't think Trevor Mallard, local MP, would be too enamored with your solution. It's a pretty long bow to suggest that National is campaigning for them to be set loose on our streets when measures are being put in place to monitor their movements. But in the great scheme of things that's all you can do ... they've served their sentence and, unless NZL is prepared to pass new laws providing for the double jeopardy incarceration, I'm not sure there are too many other solutions available. As some keep pointing out ... they are New Zealanders ... albeit, to me, second rate NZrs.

Adolf ... re Davis. I disagree, he hasn't lost the plot at all. He's playing to the media in carefully contrived campaign to lift his profile and, if has to pimp for crims in the process, then he will live with that because his end game is name recognition, no more, no less, and a seat in the upper echelons of Labour (perhaps Deputy Leader since Jacinda was given the DCM)

As for Hone ... he remains toxic and dead meat except for the dedicated John Frum supporters.

Noel said...

7 million parole costs for deportees incarcerated under Australian Law equal 388 New Zealand hip operations.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Vet

Do you think, on current performance, he'll win in 2017?

Psycho Milt said...

Look, some things we might feel uncomfortable with ... much like when your Girl signed our reciprocal rights away with Aust as a trade-off to get visa free entry

I feel a little more than "uncomfortable" with the Prime Minister of New Zealand endorsing indefinite detention without trial of New Zealand citizens and declaring anyone who objects to it a supporter of murderers and rapists, but maybe that's just me.

As for "my Girl," she was your Girl as much as mine, given that I voted Labour as often as you did when she was PM, and that she was Prime Minister of New Zealand (and not just "Prime Minister of those New Zealanders who haven't committed a crime ever or otherwise fallen foul of Australian politicians," might I add). Also: Clark negotiating the least-shit deal with Howard for NZ access to Australia is not in any sense comparable to Key declaring himself OK with egregious breaches of NZ citizens' human rights and then abusing people who expect him to give a shit about it.

Noel said...

On immigration Clark would not amend our legislation so Howard changed the rules.
There was a chance back then to do something. The real problem was not New Zealand born Kiwi's but those who saw NZ residency as a way to get across the ditch after been denied an Aussie visa.

Not surprising then that most Kiwis in prison in Canberra are not Maori but Pacific Islanders.

Call me racist if you want but its a fact. In that respect our Pacific quota hasn't been helpful to NZ born Kiwis in Australia.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Milt

They are not in 'indefinite detention.'

They can leave anytime they like.

The Veteran said...

PM ... pse authenticate your statement that the PM endorses indefinite detention without trial other than ... acknowleding the right of a sovereign nation to make its own laws.

Psycho Milt said...

They can leave anytime they like.

They can end their punishment simply by waiving their right to appeal. Still not seeing a human rights issue there?

PM ... pse authenticate your statement that the PM endorses indefinite detention without trial other than ... acknowleding the right of a sovereign nation to make its own laws.

You just authenticated it yourself. Australia has passed laws providing for indefinite detention without trial for NZ citizens who meet some criteria. Key acknowledges Australia's 'right' as a sovereign nation to breach NZ citizens' supposedly-inalienable human rights. In addition, he's declared anyone who objects to Australia breaching NZ citizens' human rights to be a supporter of murderers and rapists, which is a pretty unequivocal statement.

The Veteran said...

Noel ... if your thesis is that Aust should bare the cost of any regime put in place by NZL to monitor the activities of NZL deportees convicted of serious crimes then it follows that the NZL government must compensate foreign governments for any costs relating to their nationals deported from NZL for similar offences.

For the record and the latest stats I can find have it that in the eleven months to Nov 2011
there were 272 deportees from NZL to pacific islands alone (as opposed to 19 removals of overstayers). Add to that the number of deportees to the rest of the world and your 388 hip operations goes out the window.

The Veteran said...

PM ... it is a circular argument. Key's statement was made against the backdrop of Labour/Davis calling him gutless for, I guess, not demanding that Aust immediately release those poor innocent detainees. It is a matter of public record that Key did argue that, in the spirit of ANZAC, they should receive special consideration and, in terms of our relationship with Aust that's probably as far as you can go unless you want to engage in microphone diplomacy (and tell me when that has ever worked).

It is also a matter of record that up to one-third of those subject to deportation are having their appeals allowed. Clearly the system is working.

Aust reports have it that those on Xmas Island are the worst of the worst ... and you are arguing that they should be released into society while their appeals are being heard. Has it occurred to you that some, knowing their chances of staying in Oz are close to zip zero, might just take the opportunity to disappear. You will have read the report of another detainee who said that some of the Kiwis there had formed themselves into a gang and were robbing and bashing other detainees. That he himself had been bashed ... nice people not and just why Davis/Labour wants to shill for them fair escapes me.

Finally, and I'm happy to be corrected but, as I understand it, convicted criminals here who are served with a 'Deportation Liability Notice' may be held in custody pending resolution of any appeals. Spot the diff, I can't.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Vet

I really really hope Andrew Little goes ahead with his idea/atunt of appearing before an Australian Senate Committee, or some such, on this subject.

The Ockers will chew him up and spit him out. It's be Dork l'Orange.