Tuesday, November 24, 2015


Up until now I have always believed that the Labour Party (the Party my Dad tramped the streets for at some personal cost) was prepared to put the security of the country and its citizens above narrow Party political interests.   Clearly I was mistaken and I am angry and all decent New Zealanders should be concerned, very concerned.

Cut to the TV1 news tonight and the sight of Little panning the PM for his comment that our security agencies have a number of persons deemed as high risk under 24 hour surveillance.  The response of Little and his Greens lapdog Shaw was to suggest that Key was deliberately scaremongering on the back of the Paris terror attacks.  This is KDS at its naked worst.

Turn it around.   Don't the New Zealand public have a right to know that those people in our country assessed as posing a danger to our security are being actively monitored.    Is the Little man actually suggesting that individuals assessed as posing a security threat be allowed to roam free unhindered?  I can understand the Greens think that.   They have constantly advocated the dismantling of our security services.    Labour, up until now, took a more responsible line.

Little stands condemned as playing Party politics with our nations security at a time of peril in an attempt to put a hit on John Key.   He's playing a dangerous game.   His over the top rhetoric will be taken to mean that he, and by extension Labour, is soft on how to combat terrorism.    I suspect there will be harsh words exchanged tonight between him and more moderate and responsible Labour MPs. It needs to happen.   Little, you disgust me.    You are not fit to be an MP let alone the PM.


Noel said...

I would hope there is monitoring. Some of those people the aussies sent us are real bad risks.

The Veteran said...

Noel ... hope you are you trying to be provocative but it's not a funny matter. Wasn't aware that any of the NZrs deported from Aust are terrorists but I guess I'll have to take your word for it.

Anonymous said...

I think it is far more likely that Andre Little is just completely out of his depth on these issues.

Better to keep quiet and have people wonder if you are a fool, than to open your mouth and confirm that you are - advice that is just a tad too late for Andre Little

Anonymous said...

You are absolutely right on this one. But it is a bit over the top to show your disgust to Little alone.
They are all trying to make political capital of a tragedy. Hollande, the most hated man in political France has been taking photo ops with wreaths at every opportunity and trying to boost his popularity by talking tough and dropping more bombs.

Cameron ditto but is trying to get a 178 billion defence package through parliament on the back of this event. He is introducing the element of fear and what the hell Trident has to do with terrorism is anyone's guess.

What is happening in Brussels is causing head scratching. The Govts. decision to lock down the city is now being looked at as political. Belgium is not a target as it is bombing no one. If there are plans for an outrage the Jihadists merely wait until the troops are off the streets.

Key is playing games also. MI5 and the Metropolitan Police (Scotland Yard) have both said that to monitor suspects 24 hours a day requires a team of 21 men per suspect.

Now do the sums. Noel does have a point if Key has told the electorate the deportees will be monitored.

The answer is to handcuff a deportee to a suspect Jihadist and save money.

If there are any Muslims of suicidal bent in NZ they should be easy to isolate because they will be like the Sydney coffee shop chap..they will have outstanding mental health problems. The conditions that breed radical Islam simply do not exist in NZ.

Lord Egbut Nobacon

Noel said...

Oh that monitoring. Ketteridge pointed it out a year ago.

Anonymous said...

Two fighter Jets crashed in last few hours. One was Russian, shot down By a Turkish F-16 which has the potential to create a problem that make ISIL look like a bunch of small time hoodlums. This was a shame because it took the publicity away from the second.

The second Jet, Pakistani, crashed through a technical malfunction and was piloted away from a built up area before the pilots ejected. The pilot was a Muslim, the pilot (deceased) was a woman. One of 19 female pilots in the Pakiastani AF. How many female pilots do we have? Of course to reassure the NZ public we are now going to have monitor Russian sympathisers and Muslim women with flight training.... Job opportunities galore.

Lord Egbut

Andrew Berwick said...

Labour & Unions & Greenies are far more of an actual risk to NZ than any potential terrorists.

Well past time the cops "monitored" Labour & Greens - monitored 'em with Glocks and then they wouldn't need monitoring any more.

Anonymous said...

Now there is a Nazi looking for a cause. This year I visited the graves of 36 soldiers who were made to kneel in front of the graves they dug and were shot in the back of the head.

Veteran is easily disgusted. Not me, it takes an towrag* like you to disgust me.

Towrag = 18th Century arsewipe. I try and make my insults educational.

Anonymous said...

Bugger it, I was so irate I forgot to sign off.

Lord Egbut Nobacon

Noel said...

I hope it was a Turkish F16 and not one of the US F15's deployed soley for CAP on the Turkish/Syrian border.

The Veteran said...

Rupert 10.22 ... I had to sit down as I was overwhelmed with emotion First line ... "You're absolutely tight on this one". Wonders will never cease.

Noel in his inimitable way attempted to muddy the waters by introducing the matter of NZ deportees from Aust. Separate issue entirely (and he knows that). Those deemed as high risk criminals will be monitored by the police and probation services as they should be.

This is all about the active surveillance of those assessed as posing a high risk to national security. I suspect it involves both physical and electronic surveillance using all the tools available to our security agencies and yes, it's manpower intensive and that is the price we need to pay to help keep the country safe.

Finally, I suspect (and am happy to be corrected) that the RNZAF has a higher ratio of female pilots than the PAF. I've flown with a number of them and they are good, very good, as are our female pilots with Air NZL. Not sure about the PAF ones.

Reminds me of the time I was doing a check flight at Ardmore. A friend of mine who was an ATPL and Cat A Instructor came into the crew room white faced. A high up in the Pakistan national airline was convinced his daughter was ATPL material. He sent her to NZL for Ab Initio training. After about 30 hours she had still not gone solo. That is a big number (I guess about 12-15 would be average) and normally you would wash them out by then ... but 'he' insisted she continue. On that day she was doing standard circuits with the instructor. Just a gentle cross-wind of about 7 knots. She flew the approach until about 30 feet above ground and then, without warning, she took her hands off the control column and threw them into the air screaming that she couldn't continue. The instructor just managed to recover the ac which had kicked to the right. She left and last heard was flying right seat for the Pakistan national airline. Amazing what money and influence can do.

Doesn't change anything. Little is not a fit and proper person to be the leader of the Labour Party and they're welcome to him.

p.s. I have to assume that Andrew B has deprived another village of its idiot.

Noel said...

Oh Ok I was stiring the pot but hey why is this such a big issue now. Kitterage released this information back in Nov 2014.

The Veteran said...

Noel ... correct me if I'm wrong but the Kitterage list you referred to comprised 40+/- names of general 'interest' to the security services.

Key went a step further over the weekend when he commented there were two people deemed high risk who were now being subjected to 'intensive' surveillance.

Why is it a big issue now ... well, Paris et seq changed the paradigm and it's proper for the PM to reassure the country that everything possible is being done to protect them ... I can't believe you have an issue with that.

Noel said...

Maybe Little has a little point.
To be able to determine if the threat threshold is New Zealand has increased one would need to know when the "intensive" surveillance was put in place?
I presume you are privy to that?

Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy said...

Talking of Fighter Pilots, it seems that you have an ex Infantry Fighter Pilot in your very own neighbourhood.

This ex SAS hero flew jet Fighters out of Terendak when he was based with the Infantry Battalion. When the Battalion pulled out he flew with the Yanks as either a Marine Fighter Pilot, Helicopter Pilot or Door Gunner - depends on which family member you listen to.

He may have been based at the infamous Phuoc Me Airbase at that stage.

The Veteran said...

Noel ... as much as the Greens (and others) would like our security agencies to tell all, when, where and how, that's not going to happen. Of course I'm not privy to that information. Actually I'm not sure that the threat level to NZL has increased but what we do know and what the PM said was that two individuals on the list had been assessed as posing a real risk to security and their level of surveillance had been increased to 'intensive' ... nothing more, nothing less ... and Little and the Greens went apeshit.

Anonymous said...

You miss the point Trigger, NZ does not have the manpower or capability to "monitor" large numbers of people 24/7. No such thing as monitoring electronically unless you get a court order to slap a tag on them.

This word monitor is just feelgood word and has no meaning unless you have four or five hundred people and lots of dosh at your disposal and Key knows this. This of course means he is dishonest in his statements to parliament as "Monitoring" will be almost non existent or cursory at best.

Lord Egbut

The Veteran said...

Rupert ... so you are attempting divert attention from the thrust of the post (after having agreed with it in your 10.22 post).

There are 40+/- people being monitored and two under intensive surveillance. That is within the capabilities of our security agencies. Again, suggest you do your homework re your comment on electronic monitoring and court orders. Another load of tosh ... let me help you. There are two forms of warrant provided for in the the NZ SIS Act; an intelligence warrant and a visual surveillance warrant. They are issued, not by the Courts, but by the Minister in association with the Commissioner for Security Warrants.

Your comment about Key being dishonest is nothing more than KDS unless you take the view that an organisation with 200+ employees and a budget of $50m+ (and the ability to draw on other agency resources) is incapable of doing the job it is mandated by legislation to carry out.

Anonymous said...

Trigger...A visual surveillance warrant to expedited properly 24/7 needs a minimum of 21 persons per suspect otherwise it is only a partial surveillance and easily slipped.

An electronic tag is a deprivation of liberty and requires a court order for attachment in all countries claiming to abide by the rule of law. Is NZ different??

Internet monitoring days is easily bypassed by kids aged 12 and is of very limited use. Thirty deportees who are going to be "monitored" and 40 "persons of interest" to be monitored. As I said do the sums because 100 of those employees are deskbound.

It's just a sop to appear proactive to the public.

Lord Egbut

The Veteran said...

Rupert ... I bow to your superior knowledge and on that basis we must all now work for the dismantling of our security agencies because they can't do the job they are mandated to do ... happy now, sorted..

Being sarcastic of course ... tell me, how does 2 become 30+40=70? ... and in your attempt to dissemble you conveniently left out the bit about 'with the ability to draw on other agency resources'.

Given the very nature of terrorism no government can give an absolute assurance there will be no attacks but your snide and patronizing remarks about the ability of our security services to carry out their mandate does you no credit, no credit at all, although no doubt they will be applauded by those running 'other'agenda (and I mean that in the widest possible sense).

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

In Rupert's Utopia, security personnel only work for a little over one hour per day. No doubt Rupert would expect them to be paid for eight hours work, not forgetting rostered days off and maternity leave, tangi leave, party meeting leave, electioneering leave ....... have I missed any Rupert?

Anonymous said...

Two becomes thirty because Key told the house that all deportees convicted of violent crime will be monitored on their return. Forty becomes seventy because Key told the house that there were 40 people of interest that were being monitored re terror.

Adolf: you surprise me, I thought being a contributor you could do the sums.
24hour surveillance requires three teams of seven doing 8 hour shifts with each man being rotated to enable every one to have a day off once a week. If you bring the HQ staff into the equation MI5 say that it needs 26 people per suspect. At least have the courtesy to ask if you don't know instead of trying to look clever,

Lord Egbut Nobacon