Sunday, October 11, 2015


Our colleague Psycho Milt (luv the ndp) is quite right to draw our attention to the propaganda we are fed by some unscrupulous media journos.   Clearly some have supped long and hard from Goebbels' cup.

Islam, like most religions, has its fanatics.  For many it's as though the Crusades ended yesterday while they remain stuck in a fifteenth century time warp where the practises of the Inquisition (and worse) are both encouraged and justified.

But we do need to keep a sense of proportion, hard that it is.    In my experience the vast majority of Muslims are moderate and they would see their religion as a religion of peace.   Indeed, search the Quran and you find this in 2.62 ... "Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in God and (2) believes in the Last Day and (3) lives a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord.   They have nothing to fear nor will they grieve".    Yes, I know someone will point to contradictory passages too just as there are contradictory passages in the Bible.

But to think of all Muslims as fanatics is wrong.   I am often reminded  of an incident that occurred on the Malay/Thai border while I was serving an attachment to a Royal Malay Regiment battalion.   We were due for a helicopter resupply and for whatever reason it didn't happen (bad weather I think). By the third day we were getting very hungry and so I decided to break out my emergency ration pack per courtesy of 1 RNZIR SOPs.    I was the only person carrying one.   The Battalion CO, a Muslim, saw what I was doing and became 'interested'.   Made his way over to me picked up the tin.   Aha-ha he said, reading from the label.   PORK ... in my language that spells BEEF ... we share ... and we did.

You can make whatever you like out of that story.   For me it's a reminder that not all Muslims are fanatics.   Neither do all Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland hate each other.    The trouble starts when a religion is perverted by extremists in pursuit of other agendas.

Just how you tell the extremist from the moderate is the difficult question but we need to be able to separate them because painting all moderates with the extremist brush will surely drive them into the hands of the extremists.


Anonymous said...

This post is far to moderate and sensible for this blog. It sits uncomfortably next to Dodgers thud and blunder view of the Moslem world.

How to tell a moderate from an extremist? Springer spaniels are pretty good.

Lord Egbut Nobacon.

David said...

Yes, there are moderates in all religions. However, it is the moderates that provide cover to the lunatics. Unless or until the moderates forsake their religion for free thought, they will always be aiders and abettors of the extremists.

Psycho Milt said...

I lived in a Muslim country for three years and every day met excellent, lovely people. No doubt the Soviet Union was also full of people who'd be good friends and colleagues. And I've read plenty of memoirs by former servicemen of the Wehrmacht or Waffen SS whose authors have struck me as top blokes. People are generally pretty similar wherever you go - it's just some of the religions and ideologies that are less desirable than others.

Anonymous said...


Islam is a reversed mirror image of Christianity and the two have nothing useful in common in a theological or practical sense. The distinctions are clear and similarities only exist to make the early verses of the Quran look appealing to the locals in AD700. The locals then were not easily fooled. The "good" Muslims are those that believe devoutly and carry out the instructions to bring about a Muslim kingdom on earth and force conversions. The nice Muslims are the nominal who tow a line but as a cultural convenience. There are many within Christianity like that as well - they pretend to believe but if pressed would flag it away. Its the Muslims that are pressing and many fringe dwellers convert to save their skin.

Islam seeks to do God's work by having the followers building a kingdom on earth (at the point of a gun) and for that reason its a complete system including the politics required to bring about that aim. The Christian position is that God will sort it out himself on the last day and the political bollocks along the way is to be endured as may be required.


Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Well said, 3:16

The Veteran said...

The first record of Muslims in NZL is to be found in the 1874 census when fifteen Chinese gold miners declared themselves to be Muslim. Since then the numbers have grown to 46,194 as recorded in the 2013 census and include over 1,000 Maori. Many are second and third generation New Zealanders. The vast majority are law abiding.

So folks, in light of your comments what to do? Deport them to????? Hold on. NZrs can't be deported from NZ. Round them up and isolate them in 'concentration' camps and then what? Didn't quite work for the Brits or the Nazis did it ... unless you are proposing a 'final solution'.

If not that what then is your answer. Interested in your proposals.

Anonymous said...

The issue is the % and we do not yet have a problem (but will have one eventually as Islam increases, enjoys its reformation and returns to its roots). We should stop importing them and that will slow the home grown as well. I gather it is reaching Maori in jail and that may be because both have strong tribal histories with important family connections. The Japanese manage the Muslim issue well - no job, no visa, no welfare, no tolerance and so on. Unlike Europe they simply make being Muslim difficult and will not endorse it as part of the Japanese culture.

The solution for us is to hold to a culture that is demonstrably superior and marginalise the new rather than suck up to it. The problem is that much of the west no longer has any culture they value.


Psycho Milt said...

So folks, in light of your comments what to do?

I don't think we need to "do" anything. NZ's had immigration by people with unpleasant ideologies before, eg some of our 20th Century immigrants were fascists or communists, and in recent times we've brought in a lot of racist, religious-conservative South Africans that the country would have been a lot better off without. There isn't any way to put ethnic or ideological criteria on immigration that wouldn't do more harm than good, so in terms of what we should do about it, my suggestion is "Accept that we're going to get some bad immigrants along with the good ones."

That said, it would be nice if NZ governments stopped pretending Islam was compatible with liberal western democracy, and instead treated it more like Bolshevism was treated last century - no law against being one, just don't expect the government to endorse or support your activities, and do expect the SIS to keep an eye on any organisations you set up.

The Veteran said...

Psycho Milt .... I'm not sure that the govt (any govt) endorses or supports Islam per sae other than allowing them the same opportunities afforded any other religion.

I do expect that both the SIS and the GCSB are actively involved in monitoring possible radical elements in that community and so they should no matter the scaremongering indulged in by the Greens, the Council for Civil Liberties and other assorted 'do-gooders'.

Anonymous said...

I and history pretty much agree with veteran and god forbid I should live in a society where all think alike. It would be like living in Dargaville.

I do take exception at you drawing a parallel between British and German concentration camps. The word concentration was borrowed and used by the Germans because at that time it had an acceptable meaning. It was only after WW2 the word came to mean something entirely different.

Lord Egbut Nobacon.

The Veteran said...

Lord EN ... I'm in Dargaville later this week. Wot have you got against Dargavillians? Yes, I know that Murray McCully and Winston Peters hailed from there but you don't hold that against good people.
Anyway ... thought that appellation was in connection with Palmerston North ... sorry PM.

As to the concentration camps bit. Only difference I can see (because the outcomes were similar) was that the Brits did it by omission while the Nazis did it by commission.

JC said...

In a way the SA concentration camps were at least partly responsible for Apartheid and the fortress mentality of the Boers over the next decades.. they are still bitter at the Poms about the camps and the deaths and hardships faced by Boer women and children held hostage in order to bring the war to a close.

The Nazi camps were guaranteed fodder for comparison as SA plotted its future after WW2.. the sins of the fathers and all that stuff are not expunged in a just a generation or two.. the stories grow and are fed by the activists sometimes for a 1000 years.

It still amazes me that Mandela was allowed to act as a circuit breaker by the Whites...