Sunday, April 26, 2015


I see Catherine Delahunty from the Greens has condemned a potential free trade deal with the Gulf Cooperation Council and particularly Saudi Arabia because of its supposed poor human rights record including the fact they allow executions by beheading and that women are not allowed out without male supervision and cannot drive cars.

If that were to be the standard against which all trade deals were assessed then we in New Zealand would would find ouirselves in real trouble with most of our markets blocked off including China (currently our second largest trading partner with our exports worth $6.7b; the GCC 5th at $2b; India (where you see females being stoned to death) 12th at $926m ... the list goes on and on.    Just where do you draw the line on this?   Is death by beheading (Saudi) any different to death by Firing Squad (Indonesia) ... not sure that it is.

When you start playing 'God' with trade then you are on a slippery slope to nowhere.    But then again I guess the Greens prefer to stand clean and pure and bugger the consequences.    The good news is for most most people, the opinions of Delanunty are irrelevant.   But if she were to get her mits on the levers of power ....................


Psycho Milt said...

How could Delahunty be worse than what we have already?

Right now we have a hair-puller in chief who, only a couple of months ago, declared that we must take military action against "barbaric and evil" people in the Middle East, and "when people are out there being beheaded, I'm sorry but this is the time to stand up and be counted." According to Delahunty's press release, the "barbaric and evil" people running Saudi Arabia have beheaded 65 people already this year. Did the time to stand up and be counted pass already?

JC said...

"Saudi Arabia have beheaded 65 people already this year"

That's not even a good day for IS or Boko Haram.


Psycho Milt said...

It isn't? What info are you relying on for that claim?

In any case, if it's a matter of how many people the nutcases behead over a given time period, what's the threshold? Is there a particular number of beheadings at which the nutcases cross over from 'valued trading partner' to 'threat requiring military response?'

The Veteran said...

PM ... we're talking about trade old son.

There is a 'slight' difference between dealing with a legitimate government and a terrorist organisation such as ISIL (unless you're going to argue that the House of Saud is not the legitimate ruler of Saudi Arabia - in which case you are going up against the 193 member countries of the UN that see it otherwise compared with the zip, zero, nothing who support ISIL).

The reality is that we export more to the GCC than we do to Britain ... and you would have it that we should stand on some moral high-ground and say no way.

What then is your position on Indonesia, China and India or is it going to be selective morality?

Tinman said...

Executions by beheading sounds dreadfully messy but, having observed road behaviour in NZ over the years, in other ways I believe we could learn something from our Saudi friends.

Howie said...

"we're talking about trade old son."

Vet nails it. We can't trade with ISIL therefore we care about their human rights abuses. Also, "caring" about their human rights abuses keeps us sweet with some of our big trading partners, so we "care" an awful lot. WIth the Saudis, there's some money at stake so we must studiously ignore their state-mandated butchery. Obvious, and moral.

The Veteran said...

Howie ... don't be stupid.

ISIL/ISIS ain't a country ... it's a terrorist organisation pure and simple and you don't do trade with terrorist organisations.

As for the Saudi's. I think their method of execution is barbaric in the same way as I think all executions are barbaric. But if you're going to use that as your line in the sand to determine which countries you are going to trade with then the reality is that we have just lost most of our trade.

Under that scenario we would not trade with:

Equatorial Guinea
North Korea
Palestinian Authority
Saint Kitts & Nevis
Saudi Arabia
South Sudan
United States

Not a hell of a lot left is there?

It's a real bugger when you sign up to selective morality.

Note: These figures relate only to executions carried out. They do not include countries that sentenced people to death. If you did that you would add in another 43 countries ... source is that well known Right Wing organisation - Amnesty International.

Howie said...

Human rights abuses by ISIS are why we're going to war with them. Weren't you listening to St John of the Hair Pulling? That being the case, who's being selective in their morality again?

The Veteran said...

Howie ... you're boring and not prepared to debate the issue logically. ISIS is a terrorist organisation. That's why the 'West' has declared war on them. That they abuse human rights goes with the territory of being a terrorist organisation..

You stick with your selective morality re the GCC.

Ill stick with the reality that we trade with a lot of countries where we may not approve of their human rights record ... our numbers two and three trading partners cases at point.

Howie said...

John of the Pony Tail says that military action against ISIS is a human rights issue - he was squawking that in Parliament the other day. However, the Saudi government also engages in beheadings, amputations and stonings. For some reason he's cool with that, and you accuse others of selective morality (and being illogical). Hypocrite much?

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

I'm so glad I no longer have to put up with this useless prick polluting my blog.

Howie said...

Yeah, poor Adolf can't handle contrary views. They make his head hurt and he gets angry. This is a shame, as his own views are full on retard.

The Veteran said...

Howie ... final comment to you. I cannot compete with your convoluted logic and have no wish to.

If your Key disarrangement syndrome extends to lying about what the PM said re our deployment to Iraq being a human rights issue then I cannot stop you. Others may care to read his speech in Hansard and form their own conclusions.

You can access it at

I know where I stand on the matter of both trade and Iraq and I suspect I know where you sit ... in the gutter.

Nookin said...

"...for some reason he is cool with that...."

His comments here do not suggest that he thinks it's cool -- Honesty is not seem to be a strong point for Howie.

Howie said...

Oh seriously, Nookin, is that all you could find? Some boilerplate blah blah. Judge the guy by his actions, ponytail obsession and all.

The Veteran said...

Howie ... the PM has apologised for the incident both before and again after it was made public.

Something the current Deputy Leader of the Labour Party never did following the party hosted at her home on 2 March 2011 by sometime Labour Cabinet Minister Darren Hughes (touted as the son Helen Clark never had) which saw a naked 18 YO male flee from the house.

The 18 YO later laid a complaint with the police (alleging sexual assault) but after a six month investigation they decided there was not enough evidence to lay charges.

Apparently they concluded it was quite 'normal' for a naked 18 YO to have to flee from an Labour MP's house.

But an apology. No way, never.

JC said...

I guess Howie has forced me to see his POV and to make a response.

So lets start with Gallipoli.. and rejoice that Little and Turei are there and demanding the Turks explain the genocide of 1.5 million Christian Armenians, the near slave status of women and support for ISIS genocidal ambitions and of course the virulent antisemitism.. hopefully these two will scuttle any trade there and stop any visits to the Peninsular.

And hopefully they are busy scotching any possible trade deals with Poland.. the most enthusiastic and efficient killers of Jews in WW2.. there's a reason nearly all the death camps were in Poland as opposed to Germany..

Similarly L and T will be busy scotching trade deals with Britain and the US and any Papist country which knew that the Holocaust was underway as early as 1942. And God help us if we do a deal with the Ukraine.. the Gemans might have the intellectual rights to the Holocaust but it was the Ukrainian Kapos who provided a good chunk of the sinews of the genocide.

Ah well, the wheel turns and now its the Christians who face genocide in the ME and marginalization in the West.. perhaps we should put trade bans on ourselves.


The Veteran said...

Howie ... last warning. Your attempt to defy a Court imposed suppression order (even by innuendo) again and you're goneburger permanently.

No ifs, buts or maybes.