Thursday, January 8, 2015

Twelve Dead, The Response Will Be What?

The second World War when The Facism of Germany and Italy plus Fanatical Nationalism of Japan threatened to dominate the world, came to the big showdown because of two major failings of those who naively considered there could be enduring peace after the bloody stalemate and appalling deaths of WW1.
Isolationism policies of The United States and appeasement policies of Europeans with France and The United Kingdom in the van.

Very few ever desire war or have any wish to embroil their nation in such destructive pursuit of victory for their beliefs, hence the successful if somewhat lucky results of MAD throughout the cold war.

But Churchill was a lonely man as Herr Schikelgruber rose to power in Germany while the UK and French Governments hoped it would all just go away and Stalin, busy consolidating his power, slaughtered thousands of potential threats including much of his political leadership and almost all his high ranking military  leadership.

Nazism was always going to be seeking expansionism and conquest, one only had to read Mein Kampf to understand that and as Schikelgruber slowly rose to power through constitutional means albeit pretty rugged and brutal and with little regard for the lives of those that stood in the way, he did reach the Chancellorship within legitimate constitutional  means as leader of government in a minority mandate.
However once in the driving seat any means needed were employed to turn such a constitutional foothold into totalitarian dictatorship.

All the while German rearmament and development of military capability ran virtually unimpeded under the  UK administrations of MacDonald as Labour then National, Baldwin and Chamberlain as conservatives with an almost total impotent response of Britain to rearm to meet the threat
Similarly the thirties saw France under a veritable succession of leaders with precious little stomach for war including Laval who after serving in the Vichy administration was executed at wars end and the man in the hot seat as the phony war ended with full scale German invasion, Reynand who had two months earlier succeeded the appeaser Deladier,  finally albeit far too late tried to stem the Wermacht.

Today the West including a diminishing Christendom and a seemingly ever growing politically correct appeasement of Islam is just ignoring the lessons of history.
Islam may be a religion and have a massive majority of followers who have no wish to invade, vanquish, or enslave any other nation, however the clerical leadership and a small minority of so called followers at present manifesting as ISIS attempting to establish a Caliphate beginning in Northern Iraq and Syria, are anything but peaceful.
Al Queda, ISIS and many other military groups have an intention to kill, enslave or otherwise vanquish all who they see as standing in the path of their counter crusade.
Yesterdays assault on the editorial HQ of the Magazine, Charlie Hebdo where ten journalists were slaughtered and two Police killed in the retreat of three armed soldiers of Islam shouting "Allah Akbar" and "we Killed Charlie Hebdo" have given a whole new meaning as to how violence can threaten Free Speech. In fact not dissimilar to how the Nazi's gained their power.

David Low of the Evening Standard, was a cartoonist who was on the Nazi death list for when the invasion of Britain was accomplished, because he, Low was regarded and correctly so, as one of the greatest weapons at Churchill's hand.
The merciless depictions of Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin were a massive weapon in the propaganda battle in what became a fight to the death.
That is possibly why the leaders of Islam are so vehement and now murderous in their desire to stamp on any such portrayal of their Pedophile Prophet or even just somewhat harmless depiction of Islam.

The Satanic verses saw Salmon Rushdie placed under a Fatwa or quasi judicial/ clerical sentence of death to be carried out by anyone of the faith, by Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran.
Jyllands-Posten a Norwegian News paper also guilty of publishing material deemed by some clerical leaders of Islam as offensive has suffered attacks but yesterdays assault on Charlie Hebdo has elevated the situation to new heights and somewhere along this path of madness we must accept it is war or be enslaved or killed.

EAD placed the following quote on Kiwiblog in a comment at General debate this morning and I see nothing but history repeating, if we are to ignore such lessons it will only be at our peril.

“Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.” – Winston Churchill.


Ross Nixon said...

“The future must not belong to those who slander the Prophet of Islam” - Barack Hussein Obama.

The Veteran said...

Ross ... I rate Obama as the worst American President bar none since WW2 but I would appreciate some authentication of your quote.

That aside, our penchant for pc in western society is coming back to bite with a vengeance. Radical Islam is to be condemned and those who practice/promote radical Islam ought to be treated as terrorists and dealt to as such.

No ifs buts or maybes and forget the apologists (who inhabit this and other blogs) who would have it otherwise.

They have forfeited the right to Habeas corpus.

As for Derek Fox and his attempt to justify the unjustifiable ... just how much notice are we entitled to take of a serial wife beater?

JC said...


Obama was busy blaming a video for the debacle in Libya and slid that little nugget above about the prophet.

If you read the speech you *know* where he's heading after he finishes his term.


Adrian said...

So who you gonna declare war on then, exactly?

The Veteran said...

Further to my comment about Derek Fox. If he is still a member of the Maori Party then I would expect that Party to disown him publicly.

Fox stands condemned out of his own mouth.
Only a fool or an idiot would say what he said. Fox is both.

The Veteran said...

Adrian ... google up Regulation 18B and go figure what I'm on about.

Adrian said...

So, internment for people you don't like. An idea that's both stupid AND evil.

Edward the Confessor said...

Hey JC and Nixon, why the monstrous dishonesty? It makes me question your credibility.

How about this quote:

"The future must not belong to those who target Coptic Christians in Egypt"


"It is time to marginalize those who -- even when not directly resorting to violence -- use hatred of America, or the West, or Israel, as the central organizing principle of politics."


"There is no speech that justifies mindless violence. There are no words that excuse the killing of innocents."

Why the hate, ladies? And JC, do tell. Where is Obama heading?

The Veteran said...

Adrian ... I don't know which planet you inhabit but the adherents of radical Islam have declared war on western civilization.

It's not a case of locking up people i don't like ... it's a case of recognizing there are terrorists out there for whom killing innocent people is a badge of honour.

So, what do you do ... stand around whistling Dixie as you would clearly have it or acting proactively to isolate and incarcerate those who clearly pose a security risk.

That can be done incorporating an appropriate oversight review mechanism to ensure decisions are fairly made.

The Veteran said...

Just read in the Herald.

Congrats to the Maori Party for disowning the comments of Derek Fox.

Not sure that Adrian would agree.

Adrian said...

Have a think about the type of state you are actually proposing. There is a name for it...

For me, the only solution is to maintain and uphold our laws and principles, especially that of the assumption of innocence, and to have a good hard think about what our (the West's) actions overseas are having, on whom, and what response we should expect. You will probably call that appeasement but I encourage you to have a good think about it.

The Veteran said...

Adrian ... appeasement didn't work then and won't work now. Clearly you have no idea of the threat we are facing from radical Islamists who don't care a toss about the norms of civilized behavior. For them killing an infidel (any infidel) is a ticket to paradise.

Once you get your head around that the solution becomes obvious.

Terrorists (and that's what radical Islamists are) should not have the 'privileges' afforded to 'normal' criminals including the presumption of innocence and the right to Habeas corpus.

Anonymous said...

To contain those who wish you harm is not evil Adrian. It would be suicidal not to do so.

What is evil is the ideology that exhorts its followers to enslave, rape, torture, behead etc anyone who does not follow their twisted belief system.

What is evil are the gutless leaders of the civilised world, desperately trying to find excuses, any excuse,for this savage 'religion' that dare not speak its name.

Mrs Danvers

Adrian said...

Internment didn't work in Northern Ireland and won't work now.

I reckon I've got a pretty good idea of the threat we are facing thanks. Its real, obvioulsy, but its limited and nowhere serious enough to chuck out 700 odd years of legal tradition.

By redefining terrorist as you propose you would actually be introducing punshment without due process for thoughtcrime. Sound familiar? Is it really what you want? Not for me thanks.
And your reasoning that if only I understood the situation as well as you I would agree with you is pretty damn patronising.

Paranormal said...

Fair dues Adrian.

If we trade our freedoms, culture and legal heritage for 'protection' then the mad mullahs have already won.

The Veteran said...

Adrian ... internment DID work Regulation 18B style.

And give me a break ... we're not talking about 'thought crime' (as you so quaintly put it). For the radical Islamist it's the doing it that gets them to paradise.