Sunday, January 19, 2014


It brings joy to the heart to witness sundry Australian Labor Party/Green Party politicians and their effete, chardonnay swilling, hangers-on, apoplectic with rage over the success that that Tong Abbot has had in 'turning back the boats'.  

How dare he not reveal in detail every intercept operation.   How dare he have the audacity to have crews rescued from international waters where they scuttled their boats, return them to Indonesian waters, place them in special life boats complete with cell phones, GPS and sufficient fuel to return them back to the land from whence they came and set them loose.

To all those wankers I say wake up and smell the roses.   Abbott is effectively at war with the people smugglers and Abbot will win.    These are not refugees in the true sense.  They are, in the main, economic refugees prepared to jump the queue at any cost, attracted to Australia where, under a Labor Government they were welcomed with open arms and attracted a range of benefit payments that were the envy of many hardworking ordinary Australians.

In war you don't telegraph your intentions to the enemy.   In war you do the unexpected.   Abbott is doing just that.   All power to his elbow.   People smugglers need to realise the dynamic has changed.

Australia is not the soft touch it was under Labor and the Greens.   Well done Tony Abbott.


Anonymous said...

Well done indeed.

You can't have open borders and a welfare state, as many European countries are finding, to their cost.

Mrs Danvers

Judge Holden said...

Australia has never had open borders, Danvers, old girl.

In actual fact it was Rudd who stopped the boats through the resettlement programmes in Nauru and PNG. Pretty brutal in my view, but you should give credit where credit's due. Abbott's done nothing much but reduce transparency and flap his ears around squawking.

Anonymous said...

If only we could have more leaders who had the courage of their convictions, who stood up against media pressure and who renege on electoral promises.

Angry Tory

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Judge, it was Rudd who let the boat in by dismantling Howard's successful measures.

You really are an unplleasant full of shit troll which is why your comments on my blog are deleyed immediately.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Vet, you ought to see the howling and wailing from the ABC who want every little operational detail released 'in the public interest' but never said boo when Gillard's hordes were pouring across the border in their thousands every week.

Psycho Milt said...

...under a Labor Government they were welcomed with open arms...

I hope like hell that's hyperbole meant to be taken as a joke, because otherwise it's just a lie.

Judge Holden said...

"You really are an unplleasant full of shit troll which is why your comments on my blog are deleyed (sic) immediately."

That's not the reason, Adolt. It's because you're a coward who doesn't don't like having his liver-spotted old ass handed to him on the frequent occasions he's caught being retarded and/or telling lies.

The Veteran said...

Milt ... Labor scrapped Howard's 'Temporary Protection Visas' and the influx started.

Those on TPVs received only limited Commonwealth support, they had no family reunion rights and no right of re-entry.

Under Labor these economic, queue jumping 'refugees' received the full monte of Government support ... and 'they' wondered why they kept coming.

In October Abbot announced the reintroduction of TPVs. One month later Labor and Greens blocked the move in the Senate.

Labor and the Greens had/have absolutely not idea how to manage illegal immigrants. They are the people smuggler's champions and the best thing going for them.

And Abbott is playing them like a fiddle.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Milt, there were some fifty thousand of them during Rudd/Gillard.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Milt, Rudd/Gillard were tossed out and Abbott elected almost entirely on the issues of 'stopping the boats' and 'repealing the carbon tax.'

Rudd's so called deal with PNG was a facade. Just electioneering words. The boats just kept coming at a faster clip. The only thing which has stemmed the flow is resolute action from the incoming Gummint.

Judge Holden said...

They've taken no resolute action other than keeping the public in the dark. TPV's are a red herring and have no effect whatsoever. Rudd addressed the problem with the PNG/Nauru solution and by convincing Indonesia to place visa controls on Iranians, as difficult as it is for you loopy Abbott groupies to accept. Sorry losers, you lose.

Anonymous said...

"They've taken no resolute action other than keeping the public in the dark."

Oh rubbish. They mended fences with the Indonesians who were incensed at Gillard stopping live cattle exports and Gillard/Rudd spying on them. So now the Indonesian Navy works with Australia .
Milt and Holden are ignorant. Perhaps they should stop believing the bullshit the biased media they read gives them.

The Veteran said...

Holden .... so there is absolutely no linkage between Labor cancelling TPVs and the influx of illegal immigrants (lets stop calling them refugees or even economic refugees) ... and if you believe that I guess when you cut your second teeth sometime not too soon you will continue to believe implicitly that the tooth fairy will visit upon you.

Talking about losers ... word is the latest opinion polls are devastating for your mob.

Judge Holden said...

Wrong again. Abbott's badly damaged the relationship with the Indonesians in his haste to appear to be doing something tough about the boats. All completely unnecessary too, as the issue had already been dealt with. A typical example of right-wing bluster.

Judge Holden said...

"so there is absolutely no linkage between Labor cancelling TPVs and the influx of illegal immigrants ..."

That's correct. The issue is slightly more complicated than you have the ability to understand though, Vet. I acknowledge that, so will cut you some slack. Besides, TPV's are inhumane as well as ineffective. It's why the right like them.

Paulus said...

We should heed Abbott's way because sooner rather than later a larger vessel will try and land in New Zealand.
A small cargo freighter loaded below decks with illegal immigrants slowly making its way to New Zealand waters.
The Green/Labour who could well be in power will throw a party for them - although Maori will want a landing fee.

The Veteran said...

Holden ... so, if TPVs were ineffective why the influx once they were cancelled?

Simple question which even you should be able to understand.

Nice to note you support queue jumping.

The reality is that you are locked into the paradigm of 'Left' good 'Right' bad and life's not like that.

Still, its great you see you floundering around defending the indefensible.

Judge Holden said...

"why the influx once they were cancelled?"

Emergence of new push factors out of Iran, Afghanistan and Sri Lanka, mainly.

"Nice to note you support queue jumping."

You're going to have to explain what you mean by the term. All asylum seekers are illegal migrants at one point or another. The notion of queue jumping is a right wing meme.

I'm not the one floundering around, that's you; so much so you've been reduced to talking in right wing slogans, talking points and cliches.

The Veteran said...

Holden ... errrrrrr Iran and Afghanistan were factors in play well before Labor cancelled TPVs.

That's ignoring the fact that a fair proportion of 'boat people' are from Pakistan.

Legitimate refugees who wait patiently to enter Aust under quotas set by the Govt are just that. Those who seek to circumvent those procedures are 'queue jumpers'.

Gueez Wayne ... I though even dumb apologists for the 'Left' might have the intelligence to work that one out.


Judge Holden said...

Hardly any boat people are from Pakistan. You really don't have a clue do you?

There are 30 million refugees and displaced people worldwide. All refugees were illegal migrants at one point, until they had their claims assessed. I'm not sure you know what you think you're talking about when you talk about "queue jumpers", but it's a meaningless term coined by the right in order to demonise the desperate. Pretty hideous I know, but that'c conservatives for you.

The Veteran said...

Holden ... the last picture I saw of so called boat people returned to Indonesia and they all claimed to be from Pakistan.

Get a grip will you.

Judge Holden said...

ROFL, that's your evidence that a fair proportion are Pakistani. You apparently saw a picture somewhere. How about a fact or two, rather than slogans and talking points?

Nice and easy for you to condemn desperate people from the ignorant comfort of your living room eh tough guy?

Anonymous said...

Rudd made it clear - 'If you arrive illegally by boat you won't be settled in Australia'. Try PNG for size.

Abbott has made it clearer - 'You won't arrive in Australia' Try getting your money back. Australians are not subsidising people smuggling rackets.

Australia is not responsible for the push factor, it's responsible for it's own immigration policy. Test it at your own risk.


Watcher said...

"Rudd addressed the problem with the PNG/Nauru solution and by convincing Indonesia to place visa controls on Iranians..."

Yup and they at least had some kind of policy.
Abbot went into the election with a lot of rhetoric and little policy and now uses "we aint going to tell" to deflect from the continuing lack of effective policy.

But you have to give to him that he read the average Aussie voter that let him in and realised that if you don't allow them to know what's really going on there is no longer an issue to inflame them.

Stories around now that detainees at Manuas have been sewing their lips so it wont be long before Manus is no longer a problem. When it's burnt to the ground but know doubt he will find a way to blame the previous lot for that.

The Veteran said...

Ok Mr Holden ... try this for size. From 2001 to 2007 under the Howard Govt there were a total of just 297 illegal immigrant arrivals. This was put down to the effect of TPVs and the so called 'Pacific Solution')

In 2007 Rudd abandoned the Pacific Solution and a year later TPV's. In 2008 there were 161 illegal immigrants. A year later it climbed to 2,800. By 2012 the number of boat people had reached 17,000.

And you, King Canute like, are still saying there is no linkage between the abandoning of those two policies and the increase in numbers. Clearly you need some help with your reasoning and numerical skills.

Whatever, under Abbot the numbers have dropped dramatically.

People smugglers are a leach on society. Labor encouraged them, Abbott is dealing to them and if you want to carry a flag for them then that's your problem.

Judge Holden said...

I've explained to you why the numbers increased. Nothing to do with TPV's. Neither asylum seekers nor people smugglers care too much about them. Other factors are far far more important.

The numbers have dropped "under Abbott" because of seasonal factors and the actions of the previous government, mainly. Abbott's done nothing but hide things from the public and piss off the Indonesians, whose help he's going to need eventually. If that's what you count as great policy fine, but it doesn't say much for your objectivity.

Noel said...

Judge said
" TPV's are a red herring and have no effect whatsoever"

Interesting to look back and learn from history eh!

In 2000, the year after TPVs were introduced, the number of asylum seekers arriving by boat dropped by about 800 to 2,939 people but then rose again in 2001 to 5,516 people."

Noel said...

The Veteran said
"From 2001 to 2007 under the Howard Govt there were a total of just 297 illegal immigrant arrivals. This was put down to the effect of TPVs and the so called 'Pacific Solution')"

It's clear that TPV's didn't contribute much.

And Rudd reintroducing the "Pacific solution" had more affect.

"With a return to offshore processing in the Pacific and a proposal that certain temporary protection measures be introduced, the policy differences between Labour and the Coalition are minimal. In fact, both sides of politics are in agreement on most of the measures in place to deal with these issues (including mandatory detention for unauthorised boat arrivals).

One notable policy difference between the two major parties is the insistence by the Leader of the Opposition, Tony Abbott, that within a week of taking office he would instruct the Australian Navy to turn boats back to international waters."

Howard had some real difficulties implementing that and no doubt few will be turned back under Abbott.

The Veteran said...

Noel ... please authenticate your statement that the number of illegal immigrants increased to 5616 in 2001.

Wiki has it that the sum total for the period 2001 to 2007 was less than 300.

Noel said...

"Boat arrivals in Australia since 1976" Australian Parliamentary Library

Adolf Fiinkensein said...


Perhaps you might dig out the figures for arrivals between the date of Rudd's announcement of his so-called deal with PNG and and the date of the elcction.

My recollection is that the people smugglers pushed in 1500 (the max permitted by PNG) or more within two weeks.

Your statement on TPVs seems a todds with the evidence. They had everything to do with keeping the illegals away. They knew before they left that they would never be granted permanent residency.

Noel said...

I was replying to Veterans posts.

Adolf do I have to repeat myself.

Okay here it is again.
"Boat arrivals in Australia since 1976" Australian Parliamentary Library

Watcher said...

Thanks Noel for the heads up.

Adolf I think you should read it especially the chapter on

"… the temporary protection visa regime was introduced in late 1999. Following that there was a small drop-off in arrivals. From December 1999 to November 2000 there were only 2,900 arrivals, as compared with 3,000 before that. So there was a small drop of about 100 to 2,900. From December 2000, a year after its introduction, until November 2001 there were 6,540 boat arrivals in the second year of the operation of the TPV regime. The claim that the TPV introduction halted arrivals is not supported by the evidence."

The Veteran said...

Noel ... you are being slightly disingenuous with your post.

Late 2000 saw the introduction of TPVs followed, a year later, by the so called Pacific Solution.

So let's look at the numbers (using your source) ...

2000 - 51 boats, 2939 persons
2001 - 43 & 5513

By 2002 the full effect of these measures were being felt

2002 - 1 & 1
2003 - 1 & 53
2004 - 1 & 15
2005 - 4 & 11
2006 - 6 & 60

Then Labor came to power and ditched these measures

2007 - 5 & 148
2008 - 7 & 161
2009 - 60 & 2746
2010 - 134 & 6545
2011 - 69 & 4515
2012 - 278 & 17202
2013 (to Jul) - 196 & 13018

Only a moron (Mr Holden) would argue that the canning (by Labor) of TPVs and the Pacific Solution had nothing to do with the increase in numbers.

Judge Holden said...

The Pacific solution, which Abbott has not reintroduced, (if anything Rudd did), might have had an impact, I never said otherwise. TPVs certainly did not have an impact. Push factors and an established pipeline are the main driver in any event.

Going on holiday in Nauru soon are you, Vet? I hear it's wonderful these days.

Noel said...

Certainly NOT.

In regard to TPV's their influence on deterring people smugglers was probably low.

If learning from history is the mantra now is the time to test it.

Given that it is more probable that the "Pacific Solution" introduced in 2001 and reintroduced in 2013 was a greater factor than TVP's by not reintroducing the latter now should prove who's right.

Judge Holden said...

Apparently Abbott has already stopped the boats just be being there (he is THAT good), so you have your answer, Noel. You can ignore everything that has gone before - the Nauru/PNG policy, progress in Sri Lanka, improved border security and visa requirements in Indonesia, improved international cooperation, intell and disruption activity. It's all been usurped by Tony Abbott doing nothing and a media blackout. Right wing logic at its finest.

The Veteran said...

Mr Holden ... your miss the point of my post completely. You target the people smugglers. You do that by instituting a news blackout depriving them of information; you institute a policy of sending people back to whence they came (something not tried before) and the word soon gets out. Aust was not the easy touch as it was under Rudd and later Gillard.

Sure, Rudd reintroduced the Pacific solution first tried by Howard and dumped by him as a last gasp attempt to stop the electoral rot but too late.

What's your point about Nauru and PNG. None of the two places are holiday destinations and neither they should be.

Do you enjoy being a poster boy for people smugglers?

For Noel ... there is an additional suite of measures in play now so difficult to compare.

Judge Holden said...

TPV's don't target people smugglers, they are designed to punish the desperate. And you're not targeting the people smugglers by adopting the talking points of the Illiberal Party chapter and verse (queue jumping economic migrants from Pakistan etc)

And they've not sent anyone "back" yet, and people smugglers don't get their intelligence from the media. The target of the news blackout is the Australian people this is cynicism. What happened to open and transparent government? Not a tory thing, obviously.

Watcher said...

" there is an additional suite of measures in play now so difficult to compare"

You sound like a politician.

The Veteran said...

Mr Holden ... they have sent them back. Do me the courtesy of at least reading the post (or listen to the news) ... you know, the bit about the PAKISTANIS complaining about the supposed bad language used by ADF personnel taking them back to Indonesian waters, putting them in special lifeboats c/w cellphones, GPS and enough fuel to make land and sending them on their way.

Aust had an annual Refugee quota of 20,000 last time I looked. The Boat people are jumping that quenue. The UN accepts the term 'illegal immigrants' as the appropriate descriptive ... and you want to welcome them with open arms.

Gueez, if you were the Aust Immigration Minister it wouldn't be 13,000 in 7 months, 7 weeks more like it.

Effete Chardonnay swilling socialists of the world unite ... you have nothing but nothing to lose including your brains.


Robert Wilson said...

Well done Tony Abbott? Are you kidding me? The PNG solution was excellent and delivered by Rudd? So far Abbott has simply not told us what is going on. He has nearly started a war with Indonesia and is giving expensive equipment away. Increased refugees are the way of the modern world. It will be an on-going problem; one that every future government will need to face. So repeat after me..."the boats will never truly be stopped". The situation will always require management. I don't believe that this inexperienced private school boy and his band of merry followers have what it takes on this, or any issue that Australia faces in the future. This will be a one-time term for the blunder from down under I'm afraid. Let's hope he doesn't destroy Australia too much during the next 2.5 years. He can do a lot of damage in this time. My god, what have you blind right-wing fools done? You've handed the car keys to the ten year old.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Robert Wilson

What don't you understand about


Noobstoski said...

I think we need another opinion on the issue. Maybe from someone who knows how to spell Abbott's last name: