Sunday, January 20, 2013

GAY MARRIAGE

Gay marriage is not something I would 'die in the ditch' over opposing it.   I would prefer it didn't happen but If Parliament, in its wisdom, votes to allow it sobeit.

But Garth McVicar does little to assist the cause of those opposing such a move when he suggests that Gay marriage will lead to an upsurge in  crime.    The report is here      His argument is emotive and not, I suggest, factually based.   Certainly if there are statistics supporting such a contention he didn't advance them

There are better arguments to be made in opposition to the move and the 'anti' lobby would be wise to concentrate on those rather than have them weakened by being linked with the McVicar view ... guilt by association and all of that.

25 comments:

Shane Ponting said...

"when he suggests that Gay marriage will lead to an upsurge in crime"

Actually, he does nothing of the sort. You, along with the MSM are mischievously taking the obvious meaning and applying a little literal wrinkling to further your own agenda.

What he's actually saying, and it's quite obvious to someone who's not looking for an angle - is that the legalising of gay marriage is part of the greater moral decline western society is currently experiencing (in its lust for secular purity), a decline that is promoting the criminal mindset with it's moral relativism.

Judge Holden said...

OK, that's great, thanks for confirming that he's talking absolute crap, Shane.

Shane Ponting said...

Absolute crap in your book Judge is anything you don't agree with. So I'll take that as a compliment.

The Veteran said...

Shane P ... actually I don't have an agenda. As I said in the post, I would prefer this didn't happen.

But poorly crafted argument and questionable ascertain does not bolster the case against the proposition .... nothing more and certainly nothing less.

Andrei said...

Veteren, we are having this rammed down our throats.

Debate is being stifled by misrepresenting the arguments agasinst this thing and those who try to retain common sense are demonized, scorned and mocked. You've bought into this spin, it is the mob mind at work.

This is a very dangerous thing!!!!!

It is in fact the last gasp of a dying culture - can you grasp why?

Psycho Milt said...

What he's actually saying, and it's quite obvious to someone who's not looking for an angle - is that the legalising of gay marriage is part of the greater moral decline western society is currently experiencing (in its lust for secular purity), a decline that is promoting the criminal mindset with it's moral relativism.

Er, isn't that just a slightly fancier way of saying "he suggests that Gay marriage will lead to an upsurge in crime?"

Andrei said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Andrei said...

No Milt, read again he is saying that the decline in the family has lead to a rise in social pathologies and that gay marriage will do nothing to rectify this and probably will exacerbate it.

All of which is highly reasonable and worthy of consideration in an age where more infants are murdered by their whanau in a month than there were totalannual murders in the 1950s when 90%+ of the population got married and divorce was so rare and shocking that those who did so got their names published in Truth

Anonymous said...

I think Andrei is right - its a death by a thousand cuts. At some point a stand on morals will need to be taken but where that is, for some, the hard question. I think that homosexual marriage is a step too far without a referendum. If the gay lobby are so confident its time has arrived (and so suddenly) why worry?

3:16

Anonymous said...

"Sensible Sentencing Trust leader Garth McVicar has submitted to Parliament that changing the law to allow same-sex marriage will be yet another erosion of basic morals and values in society which have led to an escalation of child abuse, domestic violence, and an ever-increasing prison population."

Will it be an erosion?

Values and moral have been changing over the decades.
What's an accepted value now may not have been for generations past.



Adolf Fiinkensein said...

In all the heated argument of the last few months I have neither seen nor heard one piece of evidence to suggest 'gay marriage' will bestow on the poofter class any legal right or benefit not currently available via a civil union.

So, I say 'NO' to this nonsense. It is just another scam based on fallacious reasoning. Yes, having watched this lobby group at work for the last twenty years, I think it is indeed part of an agenda aimed st weakening so-called traditional family values.

Judge Holden said...

Yeah, but what you think, Adolt, is always demonstrably and laughably false. What are you views on the Romney presidency you forecast so confidently? Loser.

the conservative said...

SNAP: I covered the very same article today and, yes, there is a major study out there that links same-sex relationships to crime. The following is from my take on this:

The most recent and robust peer-reviewed study of 3000 adults by Dr. Mark Regnerus “How different are the adult children of parents who have same-sex relationships? Findings from the NewFamilyStucturesStudy” clearly highlights the link between children raised by homosexuals and lesbians and ‘the more common drivers of crime: economic issues, alcohol, drugs, education and employment and family dysfunction.’

Read the review; the essential points from the study:

Compared with children raised by their married biological parents, children of homosexual parents:
• Are much more likely to have received welfare (intact biological families 17%; lesbian mothers 69%; gay fathers 57%)
• Have lower educational attainment
• Report less safety and security in their family of origin
• Report more ongoing "negative impact" from their family of origin
• Are more likely to suffer from depression
• Have been arrested more often
• If they are female, have had more sexual partners--both male and female

The high mathematical standard of "statistical significance" was more difficult to reach for the children of "gay fathers" in this study because there were fewer of them. The following, however, are some additional areas in which the children of lesbian mothers (who represented 71% of all the children with homosexual parents in this study) differed from the intact biological families children, in ways that were statistically significant in both a direct comparison and with controls. Children of lesbian mothers:

• Are more likely to be currently cohabiting
• Are almost 4 times more likely to be currently on public assistance
• Are less likely to be currently employed full-time
• Are more than 3 times more likely to be unemployed
• Are nearly 4 times more likely to identify as something other than entirely heterosexual
• Are 3 times as likely to have had an affair while married or cohabiting
• Are an astonishing 10 times more likely to have been "touched sexually by a parent or other adult caregiver."
• Are nearly 4 times as likely to have been "physically forced" to have sex against their will
• Are more likely to have "attachment" problems related to the ability to depend on others
• Use marijuana more frequently
• Smoke more frequently
• Watch TV for long periods more frequently
• Have more often pled guilty to a non-minor offense

The most shocking and troubling outcomes, however, are those related to sexual abuse. Children raised by a lesbian mother were 10 times more likely to have been "touched sexually by a parent or other adult caregiver" (23% reported this, vs. only 2% for children of married biological parents), while those raised by a homosexual father were 3 times more likely (reported by 6%). In his text, but not in his charts, Regnerus breaks out these figures for only female victims, and the ratios remain similar (3% intact biological families; 31% lesbian mothers; 10% gay fathers). As to the question of whether you have "ever been physically forced" to have sex against your will (not necessarily in childhood), affirmative answers came from 8% of children of married biological parents, 31% of children of lesbian mothers (nearly 4 times as many), and 25% of the children of homosexual fathers (3 times as many). Again, when Regnerus breaks these figures out for females (who are more likely to be victims of sexual abuse in general), such abuse was reported by 14% of intact biological families, but 3 times as many of the lesbian mothers (46%) and gay fathers (52%).

http://www.theconservative.co.nz/?q=node/158

Noel said...

Adolf said
"...aimed at weakening so-called traditional family values."

Historically that has bee reason for not adopting previous varied legislation.

There was the Property(relationship) Act, the Anti Smacking Bill and the Civil Union Bill to name just a few.

All eventually became law.

I presume here that "traditional family values" are those claimed to be only associated with a father and mother registered as married.

Interestingly the numbers in that category have been steadly declining since the 1970's as more younger couples question the need to be married.

Anonymous said...

The Conservative has brought the study.

The study, of fifteen thousand adults between the ages of eighteen and thirty-nine, turned on this question:



S7. From when you were born until age 18 (or until you left home to be on your own), did either of your parents ever have a romantic relationship with someone of the same sex?
Yes, my mother had a romantic relationship with another woman
Yes, my father had a romantic relationship with another man

Gee there isn't any bi grouping in the study.


Read more: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/closeread/2012/06/a-faulty-gay-parenting-study.html#ixzz2IZXOIN20

Noel said...

Anon 3.18

A number of academics penned a letter to the publisher questioning the peer review process.
The also identified the crucial failing.

"Respondents were asked whether their parents had ever had a same-sex relationship. The author then identifies mothers and fathers as “lesbian” or “gay” without any substantiation of parental sexual orientation either by respondents or their parents. Given the author’s stated caveats, it is both inappropriate and factually incorrect for him to refer to these parents as “gay” or “lesbian” throughout the paper.

Judge Holden said...

Gosh, fancy Terry Wallbank uncritically citing a flawed study which he thinks happens to support his fucked up far-right view of the world. Conservatives hate reality. It keeps beating them up.

Anonymous said...

Not as much as progressives enjoy beating themselves up with the results of their dumb ideas.

George

Judge Holden said...

Great comeback.

Psycho Milt said...

Respondents were asked whether their parents had ever had a same-sex relationship. The author then identifies mothers and fathers as “lesbian” or “gay” without any substantiation of parental sexual orientation either by respondents or their parents.

Which means a significant number, if not most, of the "homosexual" parents were also "married biological parents." Get the method wrong and your whole study's toast.

Anonymous said...

Just a reflection on moral decline.
This blog is so left wing, its a joke.
Gay marriage at our peril, and by the way, Garth McVicar does a great job. We need more like him, morally strong, standing up for what is right. The left is winning on all fronts, with the help of all media.
Once again the minority view will get shoved upon us all.

Noel said...

Anon 8.48 said

"Once again the minority view will get shoved upon us all."

Whose the minority? 1.6 percent of New Zealanders have made submissions against the Bill and most polls todate suggest the majority don't really give a toss.

Probably because they realise it aint going to have any impact on them.




Anonymous said...

Yes, but it will definately have an impact upon the choiceless chlldren that gay married couples then get to raise, under the supposed union of marriage, of being normal.

Anonymous said...

Gay marriage is just wrong and may you all repent your souls. The dirty filthy bastards should be shot and left to rot in the bog of eternal stench.

Psycho Milt said...

Yes! Shot and left to rot, I tell you! For the terrible crime of... er... existing!