Wednesday, December 26, 2012


My post a couple of days ago dishing the call to arm teachers in American schools produced the rather predictable response from the rabid Right.   

Now I see that the National Rifle Association  have suggested the way to go is to station an armed policeman in every school.  

Interesting proposition.  The latest statistics that I have been able to access have it that in 2008 there were 111,486 schools in the United States both public and private.    That's an additional 111,486 police officers which, calculated at the average wage for a police officer at $40,000, would cost $4.459 billion per annum.

But you can't stop there.  Yesterday two fireman were ambushed and killed by a gun crazy ex con.   To follow the NRA proposal through to its logical conclusion would require and additional 64,000 policeman to provide 24 hour coverage to the 32,000 fire departments across the nation.

But hold on ... what about the gunman who went on a killing rampage in a Sikh Temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin, five months ago.   Can't leave places of worship undefended can we.   There are an estimated 350,000 of them = another 350,000 police officers.

So, it appears the NRA are advocating employing an additional 454,000 police officers at an annual cost of $21.019 billion and that excludes both start-up and overhead costs.

All this against an American budget out of control.

I am comforted however that Representative Ron Paul, Americas leading voice for limited, constitutional government, low taxes, and honest money, slammed the proposal stating "School shootings, no matter how horrific, do not justify creating an Orwellian surveillance state in America” and “Do we really want to live in a world of police checkpoints, surveillance cameras, metal detectors, X-ray scanners, and warrantless physical searches?” ......

Sanity from the Libertarian Right.


JC said...

The NRA's comments should be seen in context, a) To focus attention elsewhere and off itself and b) to start a conversation on what immediate practical steps can be taken to protect schools.

The strategy seems to be working.. forced to consider the implications of the cost even the gun ban types are pointing out that school shootings are very rare and don't justify such a cost, a number of commentators have reduced the "cop in every school" to an "armed guard" and a number of states are moving to allow teachers to be armed and trained.Still other schools already have armed guards and more are thinking of doing likewise.

Incidentally, the fire fighters were armed and fired back at the gunman and many if not most of the big churches have appointed armed civilians to stop a rampage.

"Sanity from the Libertarian Right"

Indeed.. Rand Paul has also called for legislation to remove gun free zones so that civilians can protect themselves and others.

A cop in every school is a dumb idea but its at least got people thinking of practical and cost efficient remedies.


Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Spot on, JC.

The Veteran said...

JC ... can you authenticate your statement that the firefighters were armed? My understanding is that the police exchanged shots.

Rand Paul is not Ron Paul. Rand is Ron Paul's son and the junior Senator (R) from Kentucky.

JC said...

"JC ... can you authenticate your statement that the firefighters were armed? My understanding is that the police exchanged shots."

My bad. One of the murdered firemen was a police Lt and I thought he had fired before he was shot.

I was referring to Ron Paul, not the son:


Redbaiter said...

Excuse me if I smirk.

A NATIONAL party supporter criticising government expenditure levels??

FFS, now I've seen it all.

The school where John Key's good buddy Obama sends his kids has a half dozen armed guards.

Many other schools already carry out this policy.

The Veteran said...

More incisive comment from the rabid right ... not. Great sort of society you expouse Red. Armed guards left, right and centre.

I guess Ron Paul is off your Xmas card list too now.

JC said...

"Great sort of society you expouse Red. Armed guards left, right and centre."

One third of all US public schools already have an armed guard on staff.

Seems like over 23,000 schools don't think its a dumb idea after all.


Judge Holden said...

Obama's kids need armed guards because there are people like Redbatier about (or people like him that aren't actually hiding under their beds all day).

There were armed guards at Virginia Tech and on standby at Columbine. How'd that work out? Arm the pupils I say! It's the only answer eh Redbaiter?

Anonymous said...

It is interesting to note that President Obama sends both his girls to an expensive private school (Stillwell) with 12 armed guards on the staff ,is what know as Whats good for the gander!!

Anonymous said...

They don't need a cop in every school - why not train several teachers in each school to use a firearm and make the principal schedule a duty teacher each day who will be carrying.

Would be a lot cheaper (only cost of training) and would provide security.

Still an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff.

Mass shootings are just a symptom of a wider social malaise of generations who have grown up with little sense of right and wrong and have been indoctrinated with a philosophy of self indulgence.

Without a renewal of old values and morals there will be no changes in social crime/violence in the US or here.

Firearms are just tools that can be used for good or evil (like the internet)it the character of the users that determines which side they fall on.


Blair said...

The answer is simple - allow concealed carry in schools. You don't need to pay anyone else to carry a gun. You certainly don't need a cop in every school.

Most concealed carriers are trained properly in firearms and know how to use them.

The Texas Governor has publicly stated that he wants to allow concealed carry throughout Texas, and that it should be opt-out rather than opt-in.

Yes, my response is predictable. I find that common sense normally is. The irony is that the Veteran seems to expect police to protect the children in these gun-free zones anyway - he just doesn't seem to want them on premises. How that is going to stop idiots from shooting these places up I am not sure.

Judge Holden said...

That's right Blair. Having a bunch of teenagers carrying concealed firearms is the only solution. It's common sense! I mean, what could possibly go wrong? Are you serious about this one, or is it a joke like your Romney landslide prediction?

Redbaiter said...

"Common sense" ???????

Like most of the Nats, the Veteran has the liberal disease, an affliction that makes him politically useless.

Common sense to these people is another galaxy.

Anonymous said...

If you're worried about how to fund security for schools then how about sacking a diversity counsellor or some other PC sinecure and using their salary.

It still won't solve the Veteran's disdain for civilians, particular armed ones.


Blair said...

Hey trollboy - teenagers under 18 cannot get concealed carry permits. Try again.

Judge Holden said...

Plenty of 18yos at high school , blair. Besides why do you want to violate teenagers' second amendment rights? Commie.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

This is all bollocks. The problem is that there are a lot of nut jobs wandering about that the cops can't or won't do anything about and I'm not ready to roll over and wait for the shot that finishes me if I have any other choice. Better a dead hero than dead coward.

If its not guns it will be knives or something else.

The question really is why are there so many crazies in supposedly civilised countries nowadays? Is there something in the water / vaccines / KFC ...?


JC said...

"Is there something in the water / vaccines / KFC ...?"

Publicity would seem to play a sizable role. Its your big moment to be somebody and the more bodies the more publicity.

But in fact mass murder in the US is less common than what was 60-80 years ago and over the last 20 years the murder rate has come down 50% whilst the number of guns has increased pretty strongly.

Another interesting factoid is NZ in the 90s probably had more mass murders than the US in that decade.. once you scale up to the US population.
There was Aramoana (13), Ratima (7), Schlaepfer (7), Bain (5) and Raurimu (6); so four of those killings came after the huge publicity of Aramoana (and after the tightening of our gun laws).


Anonymous said...

Paying for armed guards at schools would be easy.

Get rid of diversity counselors and social studies "teachers".

PS: The problem I have with ol' Veteran's vapid farticles is that, unlike other bloggers, he presents no solutions of his own.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Anon @ 7:08

So why do you read them?

The Veteran said...

Anon 7.08 ... I did although clearly it doesn't suit your purposes to mention that.

For the record I advocated in an earlier post that controls along the Aust/NZL lines would present a way forward.

The 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution does not bestow an unfetted right to possess and bear arms. That has been recognised by the Courts in a myriad of decisions including, in recent times, ...

United States v. Rene E., 583 F.3d 8 (1st Cir. 2009)

United States v. Hall, 551 F.3d 257 (4th Cir. 2009)

United States v. Scroggins, 551 F.3d 257 (5th Cir. 2010)

But clearly my solution is not as 'elegant' as yours which advocates the "getting rid of counselors and social studies teaches" ... just hope you didn't mean gassing them.