Friday, June 22, 2012


I see the Greens are banging on about how terrible it was that Indonesian Major Edwin Sumanta, a member of their Special Forces (KOPASSUS), was allowed to attend the NZDF Command and Staff College.       Their principal objection was that KOPASSUS has been accused of allegedly committing human rights violations in West Papua and Aceh.     There is nothing that I have seen that tied Major Sumanta with those alleged violations.

The reality is that most countries have special forces and all special forces get to do shitty jobs and I include our own special forces in that.    But the College focuses more on the strategic level and the military/civil interface in preparing students for higher command appointments in their respective services.    And much is gained by having students from other countries.  They learn from us and vice versa acknowledging that we don't live in a perfect world.

Of course the Greens would prefer that the military was restricted to peace keeping in a benign environment where conflict was resolved by everyone gathering together and singing 'Kumbaya'.     I suspect that institutions such as the College would be at risk in their brave new world.

So I say to the Greens, at least be consistent.   The College alumni includes graduates from the Peoples  Republic of China as well as Malaysia and Vietnam all of whom, you can argue, have less than perfect records on human rights. Do you want to ban those countries too?

And why just the NZDF Command and Staff College?    Surely consistency would suggest that students from those countries should be banned from accessing New Zealand Universities as well.    In the Greens lexicon selective morality rules ok.

Disclosure ... I am a member of the College alumni (when it was the RNZAF Command & Staff College).   My class included both Singaporeans and Malaysians including Squadron Leader later General Dato' Sri Sulieman Mahmud, Chief of the Royal Malaysian Air Force.   From what I remember some of our time was spent in studying how to take out Jakarta Airport (Halim Air Base) in high and low level bombing runs.   How the worm turns.   Them wuz the daze.



Roger said...

"...accused of allegedly..." LOL - 1 small step above 'commence to start'

"...get to do shitty jobs..." overzealous spin even for a blogger

"There is nothing that I have seen..." you need some sort of reputation for that to hold any water

The Veteran said...

OK Roger by me if you want to shill for the Greens.

* wasn't aware that the allegation has been proven. Please authenticate.

* that's what special forces do.

* from my knowledge of how the system works if there was any suspicion that he was somehow implicated in the alleged abuse he wouldn't have gotten past first base.

as I said. Shill for the Greens if you want to but even your Labour mates don't appear too interested in taking this further ... wonder why.

Roger said...

* just meant "accused" implies "allegedly", not important, just funny

* never said they didn't, just sounds like you mean a shitty job is a license to commit abuse

* when you say "they system" do you mean within the Indonesian military? And if so, is your knowledge of it really sufficient to make that claim?

I'm not a green I just hate the way bloggers can claim whatever they like because there audience is too small enough for anyone (relevant) to bother calling them out.

Thank you for your service - (definitely no sarcasm, and would appreciate you saying so if the phrase is unliked here - fairly new to the country)

Anonymous said...

Does DUMB SHIT get through to you,
probably not
SO FUCK WIT we dont want muslim army types here IDIOT

Anonymous said...

If its for SHONKY key and kids were not killed post it IDIOTS

Roger said...

Damn Anon, chill out.

"If its for SHONKY key and kids were not killed post it IDIOTS
Care to translate that?

If I wrote a rightwing I'd be pissed off by the redneck-commenter aspect.

Nothing lends credibility like a supporter saying "SO FUCK WIT we dont want muslim army types here IDIOT"

I'm a white, atheist Canadian-Kiwi and have never been in the army. You're trying make reality fit your mind.

Let me have a go at that: I think you're addicted to meth, haven't been laid in years and vent your sexual and financial frustration with racist rage-comments.


The Veteran said...

Gueez ... Anon brings a new meaning to the word 'dipstick'.

Roger ... Re "system". I mean the the NZ Defence Attaché in Indonesia. I would be VERY surprised if that office didn't carry out some initial vetting of any potential student backed by further vetting by the National Assessments Bureau (NAB) and/or the Intelligence Coordination Group both part of the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet (DPMC).

I don't intend to discuss my service here. Those that know me know it well. Suffice to say a couple of decades plus gives me a reasonable platform to work from.

Anonymous said...

Anon is right to some degree. As powers come and go you need to consider if friends are the type with a hidden knife. Indonesia is not friendly - they are increasingly divorced from our values and don't play nicely. Malaysia is changing as well because Indonesia is spreading its values there.