Tuesday, January 24, 2012


This post may well bring a torrent of criticism from Maoridom (and others) but, am I the only one who sees it as somewhat incongruous that each year the heads of political parties should line up to bow and scrape at Ratana Pa in order to curry favour with that 'movement'.

By any definition the Ratana Church is a cult in much the same way as Bishop Brian Tamaki's Destiny Church.   Ratana preached that his way was 'the' way.   Tamaki , same same.  What's the difference?

Do we see 'our; leaders line up to do homage to the Anglican, Catholic, Presbyterian, Methodist, Baptist etc etc faithful ... no way, and if they did there would be an outcry pointing to the need for separation of Church and State.

In all those Churches mentioned there will be represented supporters of each and every political party.   That is to be expected.

So why is it deemed necessary to pay unseemly homage to a Church whose adherents are a minority in Maoridom and, by my count, has just two MPs adherents in Parliament?  

Time for Key, Shearer, Norman/Turei, Peters, et al to back off.


Charmaine said...

No you are not the only one who wonders and I have to agree with the analogy to Destiny as they do seem to be one and the same.

As an aside the only Ratana family I have met turned out to be very dodgy.

pdm said...

You are bang on.

gravedodger said...

You sum up my feelings very accurately Veteran, good post.

Lucia Maria said...

Yep. I think there's some sort of voodoo type hold over the politicians - nothing else makes sense.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Funny thing, it was only yesterday I was thinking David Shearer should make a pilgrimage to Destiny Church if he wants to be 'forward looking.' Destiny is today and doubtless has more members - Ratana is soooo last century, just like trade unions.

Kahikatea said...

Your blog shows cultural ignorance.
The alliance between the Rātana Church and the Labour Party was cemented at an historic meeting between Tahupōtiki Wiremu Rātana and Prime Minister Michael Joseph Savage on 22 April 1936.

In 1928 T.W. Rātana announced his intention to enter politics, referring to the four Maori seats as the ‘four quarters’ of his body. He aimed to win these seats through the voting power of his followers, who were said to number 40,000 by 1934.

In 1932 Eruera Tirikatene became the first Rātana MP when he won a by-election for Southern Maori. He was instructed to support the then Labour opposition. Rātana favoured the Labour Party because it had consulted his supporters when devising its Māori policy. When Labour won a landslide election victory in 1935 the Rātana movement took a second seat, Western Maori.

At the 1936 meeting Rātana presented Savage with four symbolic gifts. Three huia feathers, representing Maori, protruded from a potato, which symbolised the land taken from Maori, leaving them unable to grow the staple crop. A pounamu (jade) hei tiki represented Maori mana (prestige), which had also been lost. A broken gold watch handed down to Rātana by his grandfather represented the broken promises of the Crown. A pin with a star and crescent moon was the symbol of the Rātana Church, Tahu o te Māramatanga. It is said that these items had such a profound impact on Savage that when he died in 1940 they were buried with him.

In 1943 the Rātana–Labour alliance succeeded in capturing all ‘four quarters’ when Tiaki Omana defeated Sir Āpirana Ngata for the Eastern Maori seat. Labour was to hold all the Māori seats until 1993. http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/page/ratana-and-labour-seal-alliance

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

kahikatea @ 8.27

Thank you for dilating my early accurate comment.

"Ratana is soooo last century, just like trade unions. "

Anonymous said...

Ok who ever mentions that the ratana church is a cult should be crucified!!

Psycho Milt said...

Meant to be a secret, is it?

Te Rino Rapana said...

the word said all church's got it wrong but the day will come when you will see the fulfillment of TWRatana prophecy on that day you will feel the whip of the scorpion and the truth will be revealed to all man kind

Anonymous said...

If a man comes to you with a gospel, that is not the gospel of Jesus Christ. Do not let him into your house, lest you share in his evil deed.

Blog2015 said...

Well the Ratana movement should have listen to Jesus words because the man in the white collar came with evil intentions.....hahaha

Isaiah Perkins said...

Revelations 15:9 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

Cole said...

All are entitled to their opinion on all matters but don't spill poison into the well. As a member of the Ratana faith I am open and accepting of any and all people and their beliefs. To think that evil will come of the deeds of Ratana is the same as labelling all Muslims as terrorists - bigoted and ignorant. Ratana's intentions were to unite Maori under God and do away with harmful pagan practices that were inflicting great suffering on Maori. My only message to people is not to judge anyone before you know more about them. Lastly I say that there is no harm in learning about people unless you mean to do them harm with the knowledge gained. Cmon New Zealand!!! Let's learn to get along together.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Well done, Cole.

Only four years late.

Anonymous said...

MR TW Ratana does not go around collecting money of his followers to go and buy the latest cars nor has he ever charge his follows any "donations" to believe. theres the difference. While Brian and his Wife are still floating around collecting money, the Ratana Church stills stands with faith alone not his followers money.
How dare yous put TW Ratana in the same screwed up catergory as Brian that is an insult
The Ratana faith is nowhere near being a cult
They dont discriminate against same sex couples/marriages
They dont make you believe what they do its quite open minded

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Looks as though they don't teach you much English either, let alone punctuation or grammar.

Rawiri Nathan said...

Very interesting blog Mr veteran. As a minister of the Ratana church, I find your comments a little ignorant of the relation between the Church (any church of that matter) and Government.

It's a great question to ask why the Government comes to Ratana Pa each year to celebrate the birth of the founder of the Ratana Church, but have you thought of asking yourself why is it that we celebrate (as public holidays) the death and ressurrection of Jesus Christ and later in the year his birth both holidays that have been made statutory holidays by previous Governemnts and come back with an argument that the Government doesn't payhomage to other churches.

Moreso, the Governor General as the Queens (the head of the Church of England) representative provides royal assent to every piece of legislation passed by this Government.

To some other comments about people of the Ratana faith being dodgy; Your not dodgy because of your faith, you are dodgy because you are dodgy.