Monday, March 14, 2011

SOME MOTHERS DO HAVE 'EM'

I decline to accept the ACT Party is inherently racist despite the bozo delegate at their conference arguing that we should shoot the Maori much the same way as some Australian dealt with the aborigines. I understand the ACT leadership was embarrassed and annoyed that the outburst dominated the news from their Conference. Easy to see why.

But I have to say the rhetoric indulged by some in ACT over the Seabed and Foreshore legislation sets the climate for such outbursts.

An alternative view might be that if the legislation is opposed by ACT for giving too much away to Maori and by Labour and Hone H that the bar for proving customary title has been set far too high, then perhaps the legislation has it about right.

Having said all that the reality is that ACT needs to carve out points of difference from National if it is to have any semblance of a chance come November and this is one of those points of difference. Just a pity that in doing that it brings out from the woodwork a few unreconstructed rednecks who really are on a par with Hone ... going nowhere fast and adding nothing to the sum total of human endeavour.

Sad really, Hone and 'them'.

38 comments:

Redbaiter said...

Man what a sad waste of space you are, joining in with your cowardly smearing left wing friends to call anyone a racist and a redneck if they disagree with National's gutless sucking up to the separatist and racist Maori party.

And all the while pretending that is not what you are doing.

Another Nat without a principle to save himself and showing all the personal characteristics of the most repugnant leftist.

Anonymous said...

Yes, how dare you call someone who suggested that all Maori should be round up and shot a racist? The person who said that was a good ol' conservative like Russell and KG you commie.

Judge Holden

FAIRFACTS MEDIA said...

I thought the reaction of the others, which both Andrea vance and John Armstrong couln't fail to note, spoke volumes.
Their disapproval and groans confirms ACT is a non-racist party.

Anonymous said...

The laughter you mean Fairy? You'll hear what you want to hear though won't you?

Judge Holden

Gooner said...

Yep, there are nutters and idiots in every party.

But you are way off the mark with your view of this legislation, Vet.

I have known John Boscawen a long time. And I can only believe what he says.

I guess you also condone National and the Maori Party MPs using their majority on the Maori Affairs select committee to ram through the legislation without giving nearly 6000 submissions (98% of which were opposed to the legislation) the dignity of considering their recommendations and sending the bill back to Parliament, along with a recommendation that it be passed into law without amendment.

And I guess when the Maori Party say "the bill does not settle the issues, but keeps them alive", the legislation, in your words is still "about right?"

Heine said...

Judge - were you at the conference speech where that took place? Where were you sitting?

Anonymous said...

"I understand the ACT leadership was embarrassed and annoyed..." - as they should be, given they invited speakers to rark the party up with Orewa v.XXVII.

After all, if "...the rhetoric indulged by some in ACT over the Seabed and Foreshore legislation sets the climate for such outbursts", then how much is the climate set by party leaders inviting speakers who set exactly that kind of climate?

And you then seem to accept this kind of racist nonsense at ACT's conference by claiming "...ACT needs to carve out points of difference from National..."???@!#?

And it was laughter on the tape, not groans.

Perhaps Rodney should ask Hone to join ACT? Desperate pandering to racists to keep himself in parliament seems Rodney's stock in trade now - should be a beautiful marriage with Hone.

Cactus Kate said...

Anyone attended a Maori Party conference and understood what they talk about?

ACT has a silly open house policy whereby media and the general public can basically attend everything and be treated the same rights as members.

Do we even know if the person making the remark was a member?

The Maori Party know that if the media and general public were allowed the same access and they had to speak in English so the MSM and public could understand what they talked about the Party would be all over in a heartbeat.

ACT's positioning is formed by John Key and National. He invited the Maori Party onboard, he needs a balance. A National Party with the sole coalition partner being the Maori Party would be a disaster moreso if Harawira held the balance of power.

Anonymous said...

ACT's a busted electoral flush. As a party, it smashed and didn't bounce when its ineptly orchestrated internal powerplays pushed it out the niche. Its rump and ostensible leader has been completely missing in action ever since.

Anonymous said...

...perhaps the legislation has it about right.

I suspect we will need to say "no", and mean it, to Maori before anything will be about right. No one in politics is brave enough.

Anonymous said...

OMG. What was said was that the TOW was a wonderful document - far better than Australia where they had a policy of "shoot the natives".

It was praise for the TOW. Crap reporting leaves everyone with the idea some said we should shoot the Maori.

FAIRFACTS MEDIA said...

I can confirm what Cactus says about ACT having an open door policy.
That's how I have attended their gatherings.
Hell, they might even let Judge in !

But yes, there was Don Brash praising the TOW, saying he accepted the treaty settlement process, as I do.
But what he opposes is seperatism that gives Maori different rights.

And if you read Don Brash's speech in full, which can be found at Don Brash's own website, he speaks mostly about the economy rather than race.

Anonymous said...

Their disapproval and groans confirms ACT is a non-racist party.

Has the interjector been drummed out of ACT? No? Then they're racists.

And if you read Don Brash's speech in full, which can be found at Don Brash's own website, he speaks mostly about the economy rather than race.

Just because Brash has the political skills of a five-year-old doesn't mean every else gets a free pass - and yes, given it was an open meeting, he just once against showed is naivety when he made that remark in the first place.

ACT has a silly open house policy whereby media and the general public can basically attend everything and be treated the same rights as members.

Yep. Cactus is right on here & also about the Maori Party. Hey these days even the Greens are careful not to do their Morris Dancing anywhere the media might see!

I suspect we will need to say "no", and mean it, to Maori before anything will be about right. No one in politics is brave enough.


I suspect we will need to say "no", and mean it, to Sin Fein before anything will be about right. No one in politics is brave enough.

Yes, no-one is brave enough, and there's a reason why.

KG said...

"Has the interjector been drummed out of ACT? No? Then they're racists."

Do you know if the interjector was a member of ACT?

And how many racists have been drummed out of the Maori party?

Anonymous said...

Yeah, well that argument is fine.

The whole Labour Party is racist for its Foreshore and Seabed Act and because of Phil Goff's racist speech earlier this year.

That's one law for all isn't it?

Anonymous said...

I think for JoHone the bar will only be at the right height when we give part-maori anything they ask for at a whim

Anonymous said...

Just because Brash has the political skills of a five-year-old doesn't mean every else gets a free pass - and yes, given it was an open meeting, he just once against showed is naivety when he made that remark in the first place

That "naivety" was widely lauded as a breath of fresh air when Brash first entered Parliament. He made speeches lacking the guile, cynicism, and audience-duping insincerity that people had become accustomed to from politicians. Brash continues to treat audiences as being of sufficient intelligence to be able to examine what to him is commonsense, yet to ideologues is cage-rattling. Those who fear the even hand of impartiality that Brash offers, listen attentively for any group of words that they can trumpet out of context to their equally tragic ilk.
This scarcely reflects badly on Brash, but identifies his critics as shallow and bitter little people.

kurt

The Veteran said...

Red ... you are sad. Your posts are so predictable that they are boring in the extreme. Thought Tauranga had ridded itself from 'nutters' when it booted out Winston but clearly I was wrong.

You claim to be a conservative but you vent your spleen in over the top rhetoric against anyone who might dare to see things differently from your tunnel vision of the world. The reality is that you are not a conservative but an bully boy who substitutes personal abuse for reasoned argument.

The doyen of the Conservative movement in the US, Bill Buckley,
while he had a waspish tongue, at least approached debate acknowledging the legitimacy of differing viewpoints honestly held.
He then focused his considerable intellect on destroying those arguments and in doing so probably won more than he lost

He also was honest enought to repudiate racist demigods like George Wallace despite having held recist opinions against blacks in his earlier days.

No, you are not a conservative, just the self appointed guardian
of fascist thought which has it that anyone who fails to toe your 'party' line is fair game for the ovens.

Some would say the best way to deal with you is to ban you from my blog. I won't because your are perfectly capable of destroying your own credibility without any help from me.

The Veteran said...

Gooner ... I note that John B acknowledged that many of the submissions received by the Select Committee were inherently racist in their content but argued they at least deserved being treated with respect.

I disagree. Racist crap, be it from redneckville or John Minto or Hone H, is still racist crap and crap goes down the shit hole.

It is perhaps rich irony that ACT goes into the Nays lobby in opposing the Bill alongside the likes of Hone H and Labour and the Greens and the Progressives.

Guess it's a case of holding your nose and hoping the fleas don't jump.

Redbaiter said...

So you're saying Don Brash is a fascist, and anyone who subscribes to one law for all is a fascist?

The complaints are about National making very other NZer subordinate to anybody of Maori race. Do you not know the origins of this kind of glorification of race?

If there are any fascists to be found, they'd be among you and you're National mates, and to try and turn this on its head, and say that one law for all is fascist, is only something the worst kind of cheating leftist would do.

Its not my credibility that gets destroyed by what is written on here. I once had a very high opinion of you based on your service in the armed forces.

Since I have observed the lack of character in your postings and comments, where you have frequently tried to smear critics with the most atrociously twisted allegations, I have had to alter that opinion. If anyone has lost credibility its you. And well earned I must say.

Anonymous said...

...I once had a very high opinion...

Of some one who follows politics and thinks the politicians offer solutions? Shame on you.

big bruv said...

I really struggle when a man who actually fought against communists is abused by an internet tough guy who has not achieved anything in his long 'battle' against the left.

dad4justice said...

I really object to a seller of clapped out cars blowing big bruv hot air. Go away Graeme Taylor.

big bruv said...

Hey D4J..miss you over at Farrars place, why not pop over and say hello?

I know you miss me badly.

dad4justice said...

I miss you Mr Taylor like a hole in the head.Go away you fat sod.

big bruv said...

Seriously D4J...just stop chasing me around the internet and your blood pressure will return to normal.
I am not sure what caused your obsession but it cannot be healthy.

Oh..and stop polluting every thread with your narcissistic crap, nobody else (least of all me) cares.

dad4justice said...

But Graeme Taylor your lies hurt the good people of Christchurch. Go and rot in hell you filthy c####.

big bruv said...

D4J

If you really must abuse me come over to Clint's place, the good people here do not want to put up with you ruining another thread.

Heine said...

Errr, I most certainly don't need D4J polluting my space unless he starts behaving himself.

Veteran. Rather silly assertion that you see ACT as being wrong when all they want is for Maori to have the exact same rights as everybody else and get their issues solved through the courts. The Nats support grubby little deals to be arranged, which Labour and National will most likely abuse during election years.

The Veteran said...

Heine ... but it is the Courts that will determine customary title .... and according to Hone the bar has been set far too high.

I agree with your contention that everyone deserves their day in Court ... and that is something the old legislation denied Maori.

The Veteran said...

Red ... again your post reveals twisted logic. I never attacked Don Brash whom I count as a personal friend. I did attack the 'bozo' delegate whose stupid comment ensured that became the headline which allowed those who wanted to attack ACT as racist.

What I did point out was that ACT was having to tread a fine line in opposing the Bill because redneck nutters could highjack the process (as that 'delegate' did).

But I really wonder why I bother to debate with you because of your innate ability and penchant to play the man and not the ball.

Gooner said...

Vet (& others), the key issue is that the Bill codifies the tests. If that codification represents the certain common law position, why codify? Why not simply rely on the common law and leave it to the Courts?

The answer is of course is that National is attempting to talk from both sides of its mouth: yes Maori can go to Court but only within the framework of the test under Bill.

The advantage of statutory codification of the tests for the Crown is that it reduces the risk. The disadvantage is the inflexibility - this can be percieved as an injustice.

In essence what National has done is attempt to stop an organic evolution of the common law through the courts. So you are technically incorrect here Vet.

However even with codification there are risks. For example, National’s test essentially says that it’s possible for Maori to “occupy” the seabed. Therefore it leaves it up to Judges to determine what “occupancy” means in terms of the seabed particularly that permanently covered by water.

The hugely dangerous part of the Bill is that statutory grants of title can be negotiated with politicians. The Nats have essentially incentivised this dispute resolution mechanism, which is very, very wrong.

Redbaiter said...

"But I really wonder why I bother to debate with you because of your innate ability and penchant to play the man and not the ball."

Try being honest about Conservatives and stop trying to present them as far right nutters. You have frequently bracketed us with the National Front and other such extreme groups. This is a dishonest smear, and if you don't want to wear the consequences of such acts, then don't commit them.

Blair said...

I really don't understand why ACT can't have a proper delegate system like every other party. It would stop this sort of thing from happening, and improve the health of the party vastly.

mawm said...

Gooner - The hugely dangerous part of the Bill is that statutory grants of title can be negotiated with politicians......and if they fail, they still have their day in court.

That's just one of the bad parts.

Anonymous said...

Veteran, a question - How do you think the armed services would function with one set of regs for one group and a different (special)set for another racial group?

George

Redbaiter said...

Funny George- He found time to make another post but hasn't had time to answer your question. Either too lazy or its too hard.

Anonymous said...

bracketed us with the National Front and other such extreme groups

Hell yeah. Compared to RB, the National Front, BNP, or EDL look like pussies