Wednesday, October 13, 2010

ON EXTREMISM

My not so occasional jousting with Redbaiter, that clone of the 'Left', got me thinking about the nature of 'extremism'.

Many would contend that on politics there is absolutely no difference between the extreme Right and the extreme Left. That the Kim Jong il's of this world can cohabit quite easily the Hitlers. The mantra of both is 'my way or the highway' and for highway read bullet between the eyes.

And so it is with religious zealots in both Christendom and Islam. Is there any difference at all between say those nutter followers of the schematic Westboro Baptist Church who protest at Military Funerals because the US Military now allows 'Gays' to serve and radical Islam which advocates jihad against non believers with the sweetener of the 77 virgins bit.

There is no difference at all. All are dangerous. But I guess that's the price we pay for living in a free society. Redbaiter would like to put me to the torch. I just feel sorry for him.

71 comments:

Hamish Collins said...

Yes, its a source of amusement that Redbaiter, who hates communists, should attack someone who actually fought them - being you.

Dex said...

The ironic thing is the people Redbaiter shares most in common with are the extreme left zealots he rails about.

You have really got to wonder what causes a mind to become so seriously unhinged and extremist, you would think he was living in communist Russia the sort of victim mentality he displays. As opposed to living a comfortable life, without hardship in a right-leaning prosperous democratic country.

Keep up the good work Vet.

Redbaiter said...

You are puny intellectual cowards who habitually delete any messages I post in defence.

So I wrote my argument here, where your scummy little delete buttons at No Minister cannot do as they are usually called upon to do.

Hamish Collins said...

Thank you Redbaiter, funniest thing I've read in a while.

Redbaiter said...

My response is on Kiwiblog Mr. Collins.

Socrates said...

I find it just a little ironic that the author of this "You are puny intellectual cowards who habitually delete any messages" posts on a site which has a harsher banning/deletion policy than nominister.

Anonymous said...

Funny as it may be, the Bible talks about this sort of stuff and chapter 13 of Revelation, while written in apocalyptic language, seems clear enough to me that all the 'ism's of humanity, left, right or centre lead to problems because they are all man invented mechanisms designed to give control or understanding over everything except our own egos.

While we can see some times are better than others the reality is that it will, in time, go tits up because we are crap at controlling ourselves. You only have to look at how upset Rebaiter gets or how KG's answer to everything offensive is to blow the crap out of it to see how dangerous we are whether we hang onto a religious position or not.

Redbaiter said...

Socrates, your rubbish also draws a response on Kiwiblog (just below the last). I bet the real Socrates would be spinning in his grave if he ever absorbed the abuse of logic employed by his self important namesakes on No Minister.

The Veteran said...

I see that Redbaiter's clone over at Kiwiblog has labelled me as senile and old.

Now that's the ultimate insult that I should be lumped together with Roger Douglas, Jim Anderton and Winston Peters ... now THEY are really old and senile.

BTW Redbaiter ... I have NEVER deleted your (or anyone elses) posts. Leaving them up and others can continue to ridicule them ... it's the best medicine.

Big Bruv said...

If you really want a good laugh then hold your nose and pop over to Crusader Rabbit.

Every once in a while Redbaiter will receive congratulations from one of the other extremist fools,usually this results in a speech from Redbaiter about how he enjoys setting the world straight.

Unbelievably this idiot (Redbaiter) actually thinks that people take notice of him, he genuinely believes that once we have read one of his abuse filled posts then we all run away and hide.

Redbaiter is a very sad and angry man.

Redbaiter said...

"(Redbaiter) actually thinks that people take notice of him, he genuinely believes that once we have read one of his abuse filled posts then we all run away and hide."

Why don't you stop lying about what I think and using such untruth as the basis for an attack?

Such a feeble lie demonstrates why you're just another coward Bruv. A weak minded progressive posturing as right wing but actually so lame in your political understandings and so easily manipulated by the left you're the prime reason this country is such a far left basket case.

I don't expect any of my writings to ever have any effect on the likes of you. You're far too stupid and politically stunted to ever understand one iota of what I'm writing about.

Not surprised though to see the first thing that comes into your mind is to run away and hide. That's the coward in you coming to the fore again I guess.

Anonymous said...

Redbaiter: You use the word "coward" a lot to describe people. But what brave things have you ever done, other than post on blogs?

Anonymous said...

Funny thing is the Crusader Rabbit crowd and other extremists are the mirror image of those they hate.

Just like radical Islamists they will not brook any other view, those who disagree are deleted, and violence, revolution, and killing are put forward (look at all the "It's Time" type posts) as the solution.

A Timothy McVeigh Finishing School.

Redbaiter said...

"what brave things have you ever done, other than post on blogs?"

Its more what I haven't done actually. I don't post under an "anonymous" handle. I don't post under any other name other than Redbaiter, as opposed to the cowards who frequently use many different names and often on the same thread. I don't make false allegations relating to other posters identities or where they live. I don't leave messages up making false allegations and charges and then delete the messages of those attempting to refute the charges. I don't set up fake blogs, and then embellish those blogs with fake words and phrases. I don't post messages on other blogs using the names of other posters, perceived or otherwise. I don't do any of these things which are by their nature the province of unprincipled yellow backed cowards. People with no self restraint, no self respect and no moral code who will do anything if they think they can escape detection, or are so intellectually stunted they don't care anyway. Invariably, the creeps who do these things are Progressives.

Redbaiter said...

If I was to put any money on the coward doing the deleting, it would be on Psycho Milt.

Redbaiter said...

This Post was deleted. Would the anonymous deleter care to identify themselves, or is this just another example of the rank cowardice and hypocrisy that characterises the administrators of No Minister?

-------------

"what brave things have you ever done, other than post on blogs?"

Its more what I haven't done actually. I don't post under an "anonymous" handle. I don't post under any other name other than Redbaiter, as opposed to the cowards who frequently use many different names and often on the same thread. I don't make false allegations relating to other posters identities or where they live. I don't leave messages up making false alegations and charges and then delete the messages of those attempting to refute the charges. I don't set up fake blogs, and then embellish those blogs with fake words and phrases. I don't post messages on other blogs using the names of other posters, perceived or otherwise. I don't do any of these things which are by their nature the province of unprincipled yellow backed cowards. People with no self restraint, no self respect and no moral code who will do anything if they think they can escape detection, or are so intellectually stunted they don't care anyway. Invariably, the creeps who do these things are Progressives.

Redbaiter said...

Deleted post on Kiwiblog here

Anonymous said...

vet. to equate fred phelps' motley 'lil mob with suicide bombers and head-hackers is drawing a pretty long bow there buddy.

as for redbaiter, he can be a trifle brusque at times sure, downright rude even, but he always attempts to argue a viewpoint. you may not like the tone thats all.

Dex said...

no he doesn't redbaiter is the first to resort to personal insults and ad hominen attacks and then whines like a child when anything comes back in.

The man literally has spent the last 10 to 15 years of his life trolling through blogs and spamming them with his rubbish. Can you really imagine him being in any form of employment over the years given that he has pretty much dedicated every waking moment to his internet warrior persona?

And in that time he has achieved absolutely nothing.

Anonymous said...

"no he doesn't redbaiter is the first to resort to personal insults and ad hominen attacks"

has he hurt your feelings too ?

dad4justice said...

Oi big blouse you twisted gutless jellyfish creep how can you say that " Redbaiter is a very sad and angry man"

This from a moonbat to frightened to meet. Get a set balls blouse you sickening sad arse blowhard####!

Psycho Milt said...

If I was to put any money on the coward doing the deleting, it would be on Psycho Milt.

And if I credited you with actually having any money, I'd take that bet.

Redbaiter said...

And if I credited you with actually having any money, I'd take that bet.

Shame the coward can't own up and stop hiding behind and smearing all of the other admins isn't it?

Big Bruv said...

D4J

How can I say that Redbaiter is a very sad and angry old man?

Simple, have a read of the crap he writes, I have seen some pure poison from the left in my time but your senile old mate from the bay takes the cake.

He needs help and he needs it fast.

I also note that you are still desperate to meet me, for the last time D4J I am not gay, I have no desire to spend any time with you even allowing for your obvious attraction to me (you are after all, only human) so please for both of our sake stop bloody well asking me.

BTW...have you started paying your child maintenance yet?

dad4justice said...

One day big blouse I will wipe your smug smile away.

Big Bruv said...

Now, now D4J, you really must stop with those threats of violence.

One day somebody might just take you up on it.

BTW...you did not answer the question about the child maintenance.

dad4justice said...

What a sad creep you are blouse. It would take less than a second ####!

The Veteran said...

Gueez wept ... an 'innocent' post on the evils of estremism sure brings out the Kooks.

But I guess that's the price we pay for living in a free society.

With 'them' in charge it would be dig your own grave and a bullet in the head and the family charged for it ... as happens.

libertyscott said...

One of the failures of Redbaiter is he is one of the most cliche'd users of language that I have seen, akin to the repetitive droning of the (North) Korean Central News Agency. You could create an automatic phrase creator from his invective "puny" "coward" "scummy" "progressive" "feeble" "weak minded" "stunted" etc.

He has good points to make, ones I largely agree with because one of the key problems in today's culture IS moral relativism.

Yet he spits, pisses and vomits bile at so many with such regularity that his pearls of wisdom get completely drowned by it all.

He is a perfect example about how not to influence people in favour of one's point of view, because his tactics (if they are considered) make the left laugh with derision, make the centre ignore him and those who are, by and large, ideologically in some alignment with him, just pissed off.

Self-reflection is perhaps one of the most intelligent things anyone can do, to actually notice not only how people react to you, but think for a moment as to why, and what you do to contribute to that.

Otherwise you'll seem like an insane narcissist where "everyone else is to blame" and you're shouting angrily on your own feeling self satisfied at how "right" you are, but finding people at best don't notice, at worst laugh at you.

Ross said...

The difference between nutter followers of the schematic Westboro Baptist Church and islamists:

Westboro is a few dozen members of a single church that has no similarity to any other churches, or basic christian teachings.

Islamism is the faith of millions. It represents the core values and basic teachings of the Qur'an and the Hadiths.

Redbaiter said...

Scott, you're a wimpy wet little self important pretentious faggot and notice its not me writing 32 fucking lines of pissant shit about you.

I mean listen to this pretentious immature crap

"Oh I love passionate argumentative people who like reason, pleasure, thinking and feeling - and I enjoy the creations of humanity that exemplify that - politics is the war for and against it, as is philosophy."

It should be "Oh I love poncing about posturing as a modern day Plato." You wet irritating impactless little poseur.

Redbaiter said...

Oh, and I forgot-

Oh oh oh oh...

FFS..!!

James said...

Heh!....when conservatives (read socialists of the right) fall out...classic!

;-)

Redbaiter said...

Another brainwashed single issue Liberqueerian from the cult that thinks liberty starts and ends with homosexual marriage.

Anonymous said...

I take Rebaiter's attacks with a grain of salt but will listen for the argument that's there beneath the insults. The trouble with the center right is that it is ineffectual. The Fabian socialists and progressives walk all over the center and don't give a rip for logic or debate. They don't want debate, they can't argue and to lable them communists is bullshit. That would attribute belief in a doctrine. They don't beleive in anything except power over others. They're are just plain unhappy and angry people and it's always someone else's fault. RB is merely responding in the same fashion. At least he recognises an enemy when he sees one. The center is the middle [of nowhere], all very reasonable, decent, and bloodywell doomed when it comes to effect.
It's the Geert Wilders ana Ayaan Hirsi Alis' of this world that have effect. They are unequivocal and uncomfortable people. They have unified the left, the mohameddan nutters, and the center. They all hate them. To equate a squad of doctrinally lost fringe Baptist loonies with the horde of moslem wahabists that inhabit the planet with the enabling of the feeble center is plain dumb. It's called not recognising the enemy. To spell it out, the enemy is the accommodating weakness of the center, not RB's outbursts of Tourette's Syndrome. You're being distracted from the real danger, the controlling, destructive progress of the relativists, the left, and those pests among humanity who spread the teachings of an immoral Arab.

George

DenMT said...

Question for the day: How has the NZ blogosphere come to let one dude dominate to the extent he has? I have read this thread, and skimmed Kiwiblog - why does Redbaiter get all this oxygen?

Whatever happened to one of online debates most cherished principles - 'Don't feed the troll'?

You know what happens when you poke him, so why do it? Give one lonely, little man a somewhat elevated status on the internet and this is what results...

DenMT

Redbaiter said...

"How has the NZ blogosphere come to let one dude dominate to the extent he has?"

Thanks Dude. I knew sooner or later someone would be along to say something really cool.

Redbaiter said...

"With 'them' in charge it would be dig your own grave and a bullet in the head and the family charged for it ... as happens."

Just a cowardly false allegation that nobody with a skerrick of integrity would continue to make. Are you really so desperate to justify your bigotry that you need to belittle yourself so?

Pathetic and shameful.

The Veteran said...

Redbaiter 11.57 .... China until very recently.

sigh

steve said...

Do your homework ! Extreme right wing is no rules at all , anarchy . Nazis and commies are all left wing

Redbaiter said...

"China until very recently.

sigh"

You're retarded aren't you? Someone yesterday said you were senile but its far worse than that.

You now seek to portray Redbaiter, who has consistently advocated for small weak out of sight out of mind government, and against tyranny and totalitarianism, as a fan of the communist Chinese government and its political murders.

You sad shallow fuckwit. If that worthless smear is the best you can do I dunno why anyone would give you an outlet for such drivel. That its that other commie loon Milt that does so is no surprise.

Sarah J said...

"We all know that Oscar Wilde would never refer to himself in the third person."

The Veteran said...

Redbaiter ... clearly trying to have an intelligent conversation with an extreme Lefty nutter such as yourself is somewhat pointless.

Suggest you go back to Trevor Mallard and tell him that the good guys out there know there is no place in politics for extremism be it from the Left or the Right.

Nuff said ... I'm bored with your infantile ravings.

Anonymous said...

I could have sworn that redbaiter, d4j and big bruv where all the same person, just depended on what meds "they" were taking on the day dictated which persona we got.

The fact that all three are out and arguing with each other makes me believe "they" need to reevaluate "their" meds with "their" shrink.

Anonymous said...

so what is the extremism we are talking about here??

all this personal crap does seem to flow around a bit. plenty of name calling and smug antagonism

Redbaiter said...

"Nuff said ... I'm bored with your infantile ravings."

Hhahah.. that takes the fucking cake that does.

Infantile ravings..?????

You haven't made one comment on this thread that's had any more real content than a piece of dog shit on the pavement.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

That depends on what the dog eas eating.

libertyscott said...

Redbaiter: I rest my case. I have done enough in my life and influenced enough so far to not give a damn what an angry profanity peddler from provincial New Zealand thinks of me.

You're a liability to those who advocate for reason and small government, because you divert attention from substantive debate and so the Standard and other bastions of statist nonsense treat you as "the right" to be ignored.

Nobody is ever convinced of anything you say when your most notable response to people is to play the man not the ball.

It is noticed for entertainment value, like a freakshow watching someone rant off in cliche'd anger.

Unfortunately you can't see that people read your comments because they find it curious to watch a frothing rabid dog, than to care about what it is barking about others.

Like the mad man shouting in the park at people who walk by, nobody is listening to what he says about the people who walk by, but they watch and laugh at him.

Yet I don't think you're mad, you're either too old and set in your ways to be able to self-reflect or it's all just a joke.

Redbaiter said...

"to not give a damn what an angry profanity peddler from provincial New Zealand thinks of me."

Y'know, that might be a lot easier to read if you hadn't written around 75 lines on this blog about me. Notice I'm not writing much about you. Silly pretentious little cultist wanker.

Anonymous said...

where do you stand No minister, when it comes to latest assault on the freedoms of the people of NZ? You railed against labour's assault on freedom of speech with t heir electoral reform rort. Whay say you to Power lust's declaration of war on the internet, in complete contravention to our bill of rights?
Where do you draw the line and say enough of labours shit, we didn't want it from them, wtf should we be getting this from you, you're supposed to be stading up for liberties, strengthening property rights, and opposing everything that looks to tear it assunder. It is time for you to show your true colours, or are you sycophants like the manatee, thus making youselves no better than Chris carter

Heine said...

Well that brightened my day...

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Anon

Most people begin a sentence with a capital letter. They are the big ones.

You ask where does No Minister stand on an issue. Clearly you have not bothered to comprehend anything written here. No Mininster does not have a position on any issue of the day. It has a variety of authors, each of whome has differing views on issues as they arise.

For what it's worth, Adolf is of the view that Simon Power simply is wrong. Internet bloggers already are subject to all the same laws and constraints which apply to the Antique Media. In particular - defamation, libel and contempt of court.

Bloggers of today are akin to the pamphleteers of the 1920s and 30s. All Mr Power has to do is amend the relevant laws to bring them in line with new technology.

Anonymous said...

Actually Adolf, it comes to the heart of what you actually believe as a guiding principle. I take your point thatt here are multiple authors at no minister, and you have given your view, thank you. I'll have to wait on your co-authors opinions later in the day. This of course leads to the next question namely But is It a principle? How far will you go to stop this assault. We see Waleoil has made his declaration, as have a few others. But will this be the principle that finally spurs NoMinister into taking a position that is not too dissimilar to Chris Carters throughout his tenure in Labour,(i.e. toungue lolling, lube in hand etc), when it comes to the actual governance we are seeing from National?

Redbaiter said...

Arriving back in NZ in the late nineties I was appalled at the Berlin wall that had been constructed around political expression in the country.

The extreme left were posing as moderates and NOBODY WAS EVEN FRONTING THEM ON THIS SUBTERFUGE.

Not ACT. Not the Libz.. (pffft) Certainly not National.

I decided to use the internet to attack and bring down this wall. I decided to expose the so called moderates for the extreme leftists they really are. I planned to put ten years into this strategy. I've done that and I'm more than happy with the results.

That was Stage One of my strategy. Now (as I explained to Heine some time ago) its time for Stage Two.

My attack on the far left is essentially over. Momentum is under way there and the ball should keep rolling.

Now the plan is to attack the enablers. The useless politically confused disunified children who posture as "right wing" but are in fact the very bunch of lamers who let the far left continue with their "moderate" act for too long, and thereby let this country fall deep into the mire of socialism.

So I make no apology for pissing off the so called right wing. Its my plan, and I'm going to do it for ten years. You're all almost useless bastards without an idea to save yourself. Worse- you refuse to even accept any responsibility or feel any shame for the fact that THE LEFT HAVE SO COMPREHENSIVELY DEFEATED YOU.

Fuck you. I'm glad you're pissed off at me. I'm going to make you a lot more pissed off.

We need a unified and focused force to dislodge the death grip of the left, and the right in this country isn't even half way close to what is needed.

First thing we need to do is send all the traitors weakening and splitting our forces into the left camp where they belong. You know who you are. Fuck off and bat for Labour.

Moggy said...

fkin lol that was hilarious, I kinda always figured he was just taking the piss. But I mean seriously a 10 year strategised troll fest, that takes effort.

ALL HAIL REDBAITER THE SUPREME OVERLORD OF TROLLS.

Anonymous said...

Either next level trolling, or an individual with some serious mental issues who needs help, not mockery.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

It's a great pity some of you can't give Red credit where it is due. Much of what he says in his last comment is true.

Where I would take issue with him is in the way one goes about fixing the woeful malaise of leftism. It's pretty simple really. You can't change anything by a frontal assault if the only result of the assault is to have yourself thrown out of office after one term.

Witness the Obamafool in the US. His is the epitome of the Redbaiter strategy, albeit from the hard left instead of the hard right.

Gough Whitlam had a similar strategy. "Crash through or crash" as I recall. Whitlam crashed.

KG said...

"It's a great pity some of you can't give Red credit where it is due. Much of what he says in his last comment is true."
An honest man speaks. What a pity the Adolfs and Redbaiters are so rare.

DenMT said...

Pondering further on what Veteran originally wrote on extremism, I think one of the outcomes of 'new media' is the ease of communication between people of similar views, that otherwise would never have been possible. Hence little enclaves like 'Crusader Rabbit' arise.

This ease of virtual assembly appears to give group members a false sense of relevance, if Redbaiters latest outburst is to be believed. In his world, his "10 year strategised troll-fest" has had some sort of positive cut-through into New Zealand's political consciousness. I would argue that in fact he has instead simply made a name for himself as the NZ blogospheres most insulting and prolific producer of vitriol, and an irritant, rather than facilitator, of political debate.

The fact that there are people on the internet that stand with him, agree with him and defend him is a statistical anomaly. Any cause will find support on the internet - the only factor that distinguishes Redbaiter is that his willingness to deride any and all who disagree with either his content or style has elevated him to legendary troll status.

I know this somewhat lengthy post will serve only to confirm and encourage the self-important little idiot, and goes directly against what I wrote in my last post, but sometimes you just have to vent, I guess. Or all the time, if you're Redbaiter.

DenMT

(PS - I checked out Crusader Rabbit - here are some choice quotes from his fellow travellers off his cross-posting there...)

"Identify. Isolate. Destroy"

"You have the knife in the Leftist guts – now twist it and hear them cry for mercy!"

"We need to get them running, pursue them, and then thrust the bayonet right between their shoulder blades."

Anonymous said...

I hesitate to click on comments in your own echo chambers DenMT

George

KG said...

"(PS - I checked out Crusader Rabbit - here are some choice quotes from his fellow travellers off his cross-posting there...)

"Identify. Isolate. Destroy"

I was merely quoting Alinsky, DenMT--are you so thick you don't even know it's the handbook of the left?
Hahahahaha!

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

DenMT, you really are thicker than a plank.

Many blogs are set up for the express purpose of becoming 'enclaves' as you put it. CR makes no pretense that it is anything other than a 'safe haven' for people of a particular view. It is a blog which is transparently honest about its reason for being.

You can't say the same for some of the ratbag blogs of the left such as Tumeke, The Standard and Red Alert.

So why don't you give your jaw a rest and find something worthwhile to rave about? Like maybe the up and cumming potential 'hands on' Labour leader, Shane Jones?

Anonymous said...

"I was merely quoting Alinsky"

Really, where's that quote from Krazy Guy? Thought not. Loser

Judge Holden

KG said...

"loser"? Point us to your blog, Holden, where you- obviously- are such a winner. :)

Anonymous said...

Hmmmm. I'm beginning to quite like Redbaiter. His rewrite of libertyscotts blog profile "Oh I love poncing about and posturing as a modern day Plato." Priceless.

Anonymous said...

You admit you just made that Alinksy quote up then KG. Good. And your "blog" sure ain't evidence of a lifetime of achievement is it? It consists of the same post over and over again with slightly different levels of hysterics.

Judge Holden

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Sludge, why don't you just give up?

Anonymous said...

"Identify. Isolate. Destroy"

Among others, its a quote from Zimbardo- on the methodology of the SS in exterminateing the Jews, and the feeling of hate they came to love.

Kind of appropriate for KG.

Dex said...

"It consists of the same post over and over again with slightly different levels of hysterics."

Hilarious and so so true. Although really the braindead army of sycophants who parrot the same response to every 'outrage' the intellectual worldy genius that is KG exposes, do also deserve some mention.

I mean Bomber maybe a far left deluded obese wanker, who I pretty much despise, but at least he has the balls and intellect to argue his opinions, allows open comment and doesn't just have a leftwing drone army telling him how right and great he is. Wouldn't be a show without the audience.

Anonymous said...

"Sludge, why don't you just give up?"

Great comeback Adolt. You're good at this aren't you?

Judge Holden

WAKE UP said...

ACTUALLY, there's a HUGE difference between a tiny group of loonies in the Westboro Church (*1) exercising their right to First Amendment Free Speech in a democracy (*2), and an endemic, widespread Islamic theocratic polity that would have them on the end of a hot iron in a cold dungeon by now.

Social relativism is outmoded, but if you still wish to indulge in it (as you appear to, from your opening statement), you're welcome to take your pick from the two above options if you like.

-------------
*1) despicable though they are.
*2) I'll wager that the Supreme Court will (unfortunately, but correctly) not find in favour of the grieving father's complaint.