Tuesday, September 15, 2009

Excellence in economic management - a case study

Public to pay tab for polluters.

Introduce an ETS, and socialise the resulting losses to the tune of $400 mil pa. Muggins the taxpayer will pick up the tab. Not a bad start, but that's not all. George Darroch writes in a comment over at the Dim Post:

The real kicker is the 100% subsidy we are paying farmers until 2015, and the 90% subsidy we are paying them after that. At current prices and emissions levels (ie. a conservative estimate for 2015) that works out to over $820 million per year.


I think it's worth pointing out here that Michael Cullen at least had a rail network to show for the billion of our cash that he handed over. What's John Key going to have to show for the billion per annum of our dosh that he's planning to biff at this scam? A fine suit of new clothes that's invisible to the stupid, perhaps?

14 comments:

JC said...

Now, you really aren't that silly about farming.. are you?

No other country in the world has included farming in any proposed ETS.. just NZ. Why on earth would you want to do that?

And having created a problem that exists nowhere else in the world, why would you want to demonise farmers for a non problem?

JC

WWallace said...

Michael Cullen at least had a rail network to show for the billion of our cash that he handed over

True. But it is worth ZERO. No one else would buy it.

But I agree with your final point. The ETS is taxing thin air. For nothing.

KG said...

I'm looking forward to seeing how the usual apologists for National are going to spin this.
Perhaps it's a deep and devious ploy to avoid scaring the horses?
Oh, hang on......

Anonymous said...

What's John Key going to have to show for the billion per annum of our dosh that he's planning to biff at this scam? A fine suit of new clothes that's invisible to the stupid, perhaps?

20 years of productive National party government?


Cheap at the price!

Psycho Milt said...

Now, you really aren't that silly about farming.. are you?

No. No, I'm not. It's as obvious to me as to everyone else that raising animals on pasture is not "pollution" that needs to be minimised. My use of the word "scam" to describe the process is a bit of a giveaway.

Anonymous said...

And at the stroke of a pen, these fuckers will devalue a large number of assets - Kullen and the AIA will be nothing in comparison

JC said...

"My use of the word "scam" to describe the process is a bit of a giveaway."

I've reread it.. my apologies.

However I'll point out the same as I did over on the Dimpost. In the 2008 Core Crown Expenditures, under Culture and Heritage we find Labour hid its ETS costs of 2009 $762 billion, 2010 $369 bill, 2011 $536 bill and 2012 $536 bill.

We get stung either way but under National we at least delay whacking our major exporter out of the ring.

JC

Psycho Milt said...

More like: under National, we remove the cost from consumers and put it onto taxpayers, thereby completely eradicating whatever benefit there might conceivably have been from the thing in the first place. They've successfully found a way to make an ETS even more of a pointless expense than it was anyway - that's quite an achievement...

Spam said...

More like: under National, we remove the cost from consumers and put it onto taxpayers, thereby completely eradicating whatever benefit there might conceivably have been from the thing in the first place. They've successfully found a way to make an ETS even more of a pointless expense than it was anyway - that's quite an achievement...

That's a bit naive, Milt. Taxpayers and the consumers are the same people anyway. Polluters were ALWAYS going to pass-off the costs onto the consumers. This just keeps the NZ produces on a more even footing with imports from other countries who are not imposing such a tax. Making the TAXPAYER pay is simply ensuring that the rich pay more than the poor. I thought you of all people would support that.

That said, whole thing is stupid.

Danyl said...

Taxpayers and the consumers are the same people anyway

Well said, comrade.

Psycho Milt said...

Taxpayers and the consumers are the same people anyway.

What? I've got to defend free markets against right-wingers now? Isn't this getting completely the wrong way round?

You've probably noticed this whole ETS thing is an attempt to create a kind of artifical analog of a market for carbon. Personally I think that's not a good idea, because artificial markets are usually ideal ground for the unscrupulous to fleece the honest (ie, we're going to get shafted). However, what I think of the idea in general counts for jack shit - the govt's going to participate.

Given that we're going to participate in trying to create an analog of a carbon market, surely the first thing we do shouldn't be to remove any market-type effect by hugely subsidising carbon production? If we do that, aren't we just handing over huge sums of money to defeat the purpose of what we're supposedly trying to do? It raises the question of just how stupid we are, and so far the answer seems to be "really, really."

Andrei said...

Milt gets it

I think most Kiwis do to. Carbon dioxide is not a pollutant it is a necessary component of the atmosphere if life as we know it is to continue and you cannot do anything without emitting it.

What we should do is tax Parliament for the shit emitting from it.

JC said...

"They've successfully found a way to make an ETS even more of a pointless expense than it was anyway - that's quite an achievement..."

And likely an intended message.

Outside of genuine pollution control, Kyoto and the ETS are political connivances made possible only by demonising industry (and agriculture in NZ) and insisting they pay.
Shifting part of the burden to taxpayers is the only way to make the public aware of the consequences of supporting political parties which promote the dogma of AGW.

JC

Anonymous said...

It's just the rich, (Key), looking after the rich, at the expense of everyone else, but especially the poor. What a joke, we're now paying for something that for the last 2000 years on Earth was free. The Emporor sure as heck has now clothes, but when is complacent NZ going to get of its behind and protest? I miss the Sue Bradford kinds of protests, whatever happened? Complancency, 24/7 having to work to survive and arrogant PM's. Key, another One World Government man.