Monday, January 5, 2009

A Proportional Response

Amidst all the leftist gnashing of teeth and media wailing over the Israeli invasion of Gaza, it is impossible to discern even a hint of concern that Israel has been subjected to daily indiscriminate rocket attacks perpetrated by Hamas for more than a year - or is it two or ten years? The media and leftists, including Helen Clark, are back to their old tricks of sympathizing with the aggressor while vilifying the victim who dares to strike back

People need to remember that civilian casualties, if any, in Gaza are not the prime purpose of Israel's incursion. Civilian casualties most certainly ARE the prime purpose of Hamas's terrorist rocket campaign. That is the way of TERRORISTS.

Yet our stupid media continues to bestow upon these terrorists the benign title of 'militants.' Last time I looked, a 'militant' was someone who was using military means to change government in his own patch. These Hamas people are seeking to change government in another country, not their own. In doing so, they have turned their whole population, including women and children, into genuine military targets. When you fill your church basements up with rockets and high explosives; when you use hospitals as rocket launching sites, when you indoctrinate children and widows and persuade them to carry out suicide bomb attacks; you and your families can expect to be dealt with harshly and for you, the world should have no sympathy.

http://www.thelondondailynews.com/images/hamas_bomber.jpg

Israel's response is indeed disproportional. It is disproportionally civilized when compared with the brutality meted out to Israel by Hamas. While Hamas does it's best to kill Israeli civilians, Israel is reported to be rushing genuine civilian casualties to Israel for hospital treatment.

Meanwhile, our very own 'has been' Bilious Bitch, who accuses Israel of a 'disproportionate response,' has engaged in the most extravagant and damaging disproportionate response imaginable - her travel bans on Fijians, Fijians whose own High Court now has found to be legitimate.

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All this trouble, along with that in Afghanistan, Lebanon and Iraq, is being fomented by this man. There will be no peace for Israel of the middle East until he and his gang of mad mullahs is cleaned out.

http://www.religiousintelligence.co.uk/news/news_images/mah.jpg

33 comments:

Anonymous said...

These Hamas people are seeking to change government in another country

Crap. They are "seeking to" wipe out the other country.


Israel's response is proportionate for one simple reason - if they wanted to they could simply wipe out all the inhabitants of both Gaza and the West Bank.
Indeed, that is probably the only real lasting solution to the problem. But Israel - so far - has chosen to listen to the US and not to take that action.
I think this is foolish, but Israel is striking nowhere near its full strength - nowhere near it.

Anonymous said...

The only country in the world that is supposed to lie there, receive a good kicking from their thuggish neighbours and not retaliate is Israel.

Mrs Danvers

Dave Mann said...

Yes Adolf, well said.

I am not advocating killing for killing's sake here, nor am I glorifying death.... but I have just been watching the PrimeTV series 'The War' and the civilian casualties in an all-out war are absolutely horrendous compared with around 400 so far in the week of this Israeli campaign.

It is amazing that the Israelis have been able to carry out their military strikes against Hamas with so FEW casualties. The civilian casualties, I submit, are infinitesimal in comparison to what they would be if Israel were just trying to kill Palestinians and the 'innocent' indiscriminately. Think 20,000 - this would be more like the figure.

Every time Israel acts to defend itself against terror, there follow the inevitable images and reports of children being killed while being sent to the store to buy pita and kebabs for mum, or other propaganda rubbish. The media worldwide seems to have been captured completely by the Arab/Palestinian publicity machine and this sickens me.

Mr Dennis said...

Well said. But who says there are that many civilian causalties anyway? That is just Hamas propaganda, which the media recites as gospel. Israel claims most of them are terrorists, with only 10% being civilians. Considering most of the terrorists probably aren't wearing uniforms we will probably never know.

We can't trust the info coming out of Gaza, and certainly not after the Western media have added their own spin to it. My own take on the issue is here:
http://sjdennis.wordpress.com/2009/01/04/israel-invades-gaza/

Anonymous said...

So, proportionality would be if the State of Hawaii declared war on Japan after Pearl Harbour and the rest of the USA minded their own affairs?

Proportionality means removing the threat. Eliminating it.

Anonymous said...

The civilian casualties, I submit, are infinitesimal in comparison to what they would be if Israel were just trying to kill Palestinians and the 'innocent' indiscriminately. Think 20,000 - this would be more like the figure.


First, there are no innocent civilians in either Gaza or the West back. They are all terrorists or terrorist supporters (same thing really).

If Israel were permitted by the US,
there is a relatively quick and easy solution to
the "Middle East" problem - Israel could simply
wipe out the 2.5 Million people in Gaza and the
West Bank. Frankly I consider this the only
viable long-term solution. (Deut:7:2)

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Psycho Milt said...

Sigh - another day with No Minister comments threads full of anonymous fascists. Or is it just the same Anonymous Fascist with multiple posts?

Anonymous Fascist: here's another reason why I call you a fascist: you think Israel is restrained because it's only gone the "Warsaw Ghetto" route and not gone for the full-blown "Auschwitz" model. Naturally, you favour going with Auschwitz. Well, duh - you are a fascist, after all.

Adolf, under international law, people in occupied territories have a right to engage in guerilla warfare. The occupying power has no legal right to defend itself, only an obligation to hand back the occupied territory and allow the people there to form their own govt. Collective punishment for guerilla attacks through mass murder of civilians is indisputably a crime and we hanged various Jerries for after WW2.

ISeeRed said...

"people in occupied territories have a right to engage in guerilla warfare. The occupying power has no legal right to defend itself"

Whaaaaaaaaaat? Israel WASN'T occupying the Gaza Strip when it became a launch site for thousands of rockets into Israel over the previous six months. And even if "guerilla warfare" was justified against a non-existent occupying power, wouldn't that involve firing at MILITARY targets, not at CIVILIAN ones in another country?

The pro-Palestinian side in this issue honestly make me SICK. Helloooo? The Palestinian Arabs are taught from birth that Jews are sub-human filth and every last man, woman and child should be exterminated! What is so hard to understand about this? It's like excusing regular lynchings by the Ku Klux klan because black slaves stole their jobs and they feel aggrieved.

When you advocate GENOCIDE, you deserve no sympathy or support. NONE.

mawm said...

PM - Israel is restrained and is doing its utmost to prevent Palastinian civilian casualties. It is using pin-point targeting technology, phoning ahead and telling civilians to evacuate buildings before being bombed, etc. However Hamas have stopped Egyptian doctors and supplies from crossing the border (that they control) from Egypt to Gaza and treating Palestinian casualties. They have no problem with allowing their civilians to die for the 'cause' at their hands.

I'm glad I'm a fascist, it must be so hard always having to justify evil.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Milt, you're pushing shit up hill on this one. Did you notice the report that Hams have 'prememptively' excecuted thirty-five members of Fatah and knee capped a further seventy-five? Just in case they collaborated with Israel.

Nice friends you have. And the reports were attributed to a Hamas spokesman.

Psycho Milt said...

Mawm: unless you were one of the anonymous fascists writing that Israel should murder the entire population of Gaza, I haven't suggested you're a fascist.

Adolf: you seem to be confusing "Israel aren't good guys in this conflict" with "I support Hamas." Not synonymous at all.

It's also worth noting that the Israeli govt is currently doing more to increase Hamas' support within Gaza than any number of deluded Western sympathisers could ever hope to achieve.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

No Milt, you're wrong again. The Israeli gummint is setting the scene for the people to Gaza to throw out the murderous pricks from Hamas.

ISeeRed said...

Wake up and smell the jihad, Psycho! The Israelis ARE the good guys. Let's hope they kill every last one of those misogynistic, homophobic racial supremacists genocidal maniacs and religious zealots (that would be Hamas) for the sake of those Palestinian Arabs who really do want peace. About the only "increased support" these Islamic jihadist terrorist groups enjoy nowadays is the coerced "Let us use your living room to launch rockets against the Zionist entity or we'll amputate one of your baby girl's limbs" variety. Try being a peace-seeking Palestinian Arab and protesting in the street against the actions of Hamas et al and see long your vital organs stay inside your body.

Ruth said...

Adolf has a point in his last comment -- the IDF includes Jewish, Christian and Muslim soldiers, both male and female.

I totally disagree with bloodthirsty eliminationists who claim there are no innocents in Gaza. These people uncritically support Israel no matter what - for reasons they never cared to dissect.

I think we are going to have to allow this sad but seemingly unavoidable tragedy to play out in the Middle East. But we need also to cut the dogs of war free on both sides to fight under their own flags and on their own terms.

And let us also recognize that we’re never going to “fix” the Middle East.

Anonymous said...

The Israeli gummint is setting the scene for the people to Gaza to throw out the murderous pricks from Hamas.

If only, Adolf. As you especially should know, Germany took over 1% civilian casualties from bombing in WW2 (50,000 in one night in Hamburg alone) - 3% overall - and it had no effect on popular support for the Nazis.

Were Israel serious about this (and it seems they are not) they'd have to be looking at at least 50,000 casualties from the bombing, and probably rather more to have any effect. And even then, not likely - most people will still support Hamas and will still attack Israel even if half the population are dead and the entire place bombed back to the stone age.

Let alone radical Islamists who don't consider Jews human and who are dedicated to wipe them out or die trying. Hmm - let me just repeat that last sentence: most people in Gaza would rather die than come to an accommodation with Israel. In that situation, Israel has only one logical option.

mawm said...

Mawm: unless you were one of the anonymous fascists writing that Israel should murder the entire population of Gaza, I haven't suggested you're a fascist.

Oh PM - I don't care about being called a fascist, I just don't want to be seen to be an apologist for this cowardly bunch of immature lunatics who have no concience at all about using their women and children as shields to fight behind, who kill 'their own' indiscrimately to get media attention, who promulgate a hideous religion that belongs in the dark ages, who lie and cheat at every turn... and who are just not likeable in any manner at all.

Israel, on the other hand, has much to be admired for.

KG said...

Let's see--a culture which considers strapping explosives to their own kids acceptable behaviour, a culture which has built bugger-all, despite being the recipient of billions of dollars in aid over decades, which is still mired in primitive hatreds...
Or a culture which has built a vibrant, humane, successful society in some of the harshest conditions imaginable..one which would happily live in peace with the neighbours, if only those neighbours would stop rocketing, strangling and bombing it's citizens.
Whatever Israel does to ensure her survival is just fine by me.
We can argue about what's the best way to go about that but our opinions are no more than shouting from the sidelines, since we're not the ones whose existence is threatened.
I wonder how many Palestinian sympathisers there would be if it were their children who were threatened, their sons torn apart by hysterical mobs, their homes and shopping centres being targeted by suicide bombers?
The veneer of caring and sympathy would disappear pretty damn quickly, I suspect.In other words, it's a luxury the peace advocates can afford. Israelis can't.

FAIRFACTS MEDIA said...

Just a few days back i saw a an anti-Israeli protest in tehran that called for Israel to be eliminated.
The interesting thing is, as noted in some of the UK Sunday papers yesterday, is that the Israeli foreign minister, Livni whatever her name is, is a moderate in the centrist Kadima party.
And she is doing a sound job in explaining why israel is responding the way it is, to defend its own people against continuing attacks from Hamas.
The opposition leader benjamin netanyahu is supposedly to be more hardline, so i guess if he is elected as PM, Israel will take a tougher stance.
Hamas might well accept the best deal it can from the Kadima led government that is currently in power.
Otherwise the alternative might be even worse for them.

Psycho Milt said...

KG: your assessments of the relative worth of Palestinians and Israelis is irrelevant. It's also disgusting, as it amounts to a declaration that it's OK to occupy and settle someone else's territory, and deny them their own right to a nation state, if you consider them an inferior culture.

Fairfacts: accept what deal from the Kadima govt? The one in which, if they give up protesting the occupation of their country and accept the blockade Israel will stop the mass murder of their people? Have you been drinking?

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Let us not forget that New Zealand's tax payers financed the rockets which killed Israeli citizens. How many medium range rockets do you buy in Tehran for NZ$500k?

KG said...

They ARE an inferior culture, you blithering fucking idiot!
They are inferior by every meaningful measure and they demonstrate that fact repeatedly.
Not repeatedly enough for multiculti lefties, apparently...

KG said...

"It's also disgusting, as it amounts to a declaration that it's OK to occupy and settle someone else's territory, and deny them their own right to a nation state, if you consider them an inferior culture."

Well, if that's the case (and in fact it's a distortion of the history of Israel) then one hell of a lot of countries are guilty of the same thing, over a very long period of history.
Perhaps the Brits should start blowing up their kids in protest at the Roman and Norman invasions?
A hell of a lot of primitive people have benefited enormously from invasion and colonialism-- you should read Dinesh D'Souza's "Two Cheers For Colonialism" Milt.
Or would you be happier to see the 'colonial power' destroyed and sit back and watch the ensuing Zimbabwe-style savagery? That way you'll be able to sit around in a circle-jerk with your fellow leftards, patting yourselves on the back for a job well done.

Psycho Milt said...

Doesn't alter its irrelevance to this issue, KG.

Oh, and if the Romans and Normans are currently settling British territory and mounting a total blockade of England, I hadn't heard about it. But if they are, yes the Brits get to fire rockets at them.

Anonymous said...

it`s funny how the blog administrator has eliminated the only post from someone who actually lives in palestine and has seen in first hand what the zionist ("the promissed land for the chosen people" sound very much like the "aryans") country has been doing in his territory. Meanwhile all this ignorants are repeating what they read in their local conservative newspaper. Psycho Milt thanks for facing them, they are used to listen just to themselves. Sorry for my english...

ISeeRed said...

Anonymous, if Israel WAS acting like Nazis, half the Palestinian Arab population would be shoved into ovens, the other half worked and starved to death in concentration camps before being buried in unmarked mass graves.

Jesus, I hope I never meet someone like you in person proudly spouting deplorable ignorance and unconscionable lies like you've done.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Anonumous, you really are a dead shit. Your ost was removed by me because it contained offensive language. I'm considering removing your latest post because it promulgates the lie that there is a country called Palestine.

Psycho Milt said...

If there's no Palestine, Israel is unlawfully withholding citizenship papers from millions of its population. Which is it?

ISeeRed said...

Psycho, there is a Palestine. It's called Jordan.ctu

Psycho Milt said...

How foolish of the people who actually live there to imagine they know better than ISeeRed!

Clunking Fist said...

I saw a woman (student by the looks) in Cuba mall, wearing one of those scarves patterned like Yassir's that have offended many in the US. She was "cool" and most probably "in", sipping her free-trade coffe (do Mr Bum serve free-trade? I suspect not: you lose points there, sister). I took an instant dislike to her, though, due to her scowling at the children (incl mine own) that where chasing the pigeons.
I should have snapped her picture so that i could then follow her trajectory through the Greens/Communist Party.

Clunking Fist said...

Oops: Mr Bun.