Thursday, January 22, 2009

Europe still crap at freedom of speech - official

Par for the course, unfortunately:

A Dutch MP who made a provocative anti-Islam film and branded the Qur'an a "fascist book" is to be prosecuted for inciting racial hatred, Amsterdam's appeals court ruled today.

...

The court's three judges said they had weighed Wilders' anti-Islamic rhetoric against his right to free speech, and ruled he had gone beyond the normal leeway given to politicians.
Which is of course true. Given that freedom of speech counts for jack shit in most European countries, it naturally weighed very little in the judges minds. It seems to be only the English-speaking world that rates freedom of speech worth a damn, and even there the UK's letting the side down since it started hanging out with EU countries.

I know that NZ has plenty of wet liberals in it who'd also cheerfully see people prosecuted for the crime of expressing an opinion; let Wilders' prosecution be an example to us of where we end up if we let those motherfuckers have their way.

21 comments:

Anonymous said...

Can this be the Psycho we know and 'love'???!
For once I agree with you P.M.

Mrs Danvers

Pique Oil said...

Here in Godzone we are often criticised for our supposed "tall poppy" syndrome. This is the Dutch version. Saying what he perceives to be the truth means he is a threat and must be punished. What i want to know is when will all the media sources, that his movie came from, are going to be similarly prosecuted. Each of the clips is available elsewhere, all he did is collate them.

Dave Mann said...

Milt, many of your posts serve to remind me that there is no such thing as black-and-white in politics... or rather, no such thing as pure left-and-right.

I find myself agreeing with you on many things, and this is another one of them. I am fascinated by the reference to the "normal leeway given to politicians"; why should politicians' rights differ from those of ordinary citizens (and vice versa)?

I don't know about Britain, but here in New Zealand I think that the principle of Freedom Of Speech is in real danger. Anybody publicly expressing views that go counter to the established PC values system opens themselves up to accusations of 'racism', being a 'denier' or a 'fundamentalist' etc and this process has an effect, I believe, on the actual way people think.... as if they are afraid that their very thoughts are being monitored.

Free Speech gives a society dynamism and an atmosphere which encourages the exchange of ideas, philosophies and debate. The subdued, fearful and buttoned-down PC society is just the opposite and we should resist it with every effort we can.

Psycho Milt said...

I don't think freedom of speech is a right vs left issue.

Dave Mann: I think there's a big difference between being afraid to express your opinion because you'll be prosecuted for it, and being afraid to express your opinion because it's an unpopular one and people will call you names. The first one calls for political vigilance, but the second one just calls for a shrug of the shoulders and a willingness to express your opinion anyway.

Anonymous said...

what i don’t quite understand is how this guy can be prosecuted for inciting racial hatred, when every Muslim related march or protest in the last 7 years has included chants of 'kill UK/US (white) soldiers', 'death to unbelievers' 'die English pigs' etc etc etc.....
And this is from UK/Aussie Muslims!

Check out the poor old bill in blighty, their hands are tied the poor sods.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=30a_1231680653

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4b7_1231716916

When will it be an offence (again) to rubbish the country you live in (its an old fashioned offence called TREASON), any Islamic country would have you shot for this kind of lark!

Anonymous said...

Happy wife, happy life....or not?

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,24946467-5006301,00.html

Psycho Milt said...

When will it be an offence (again) to rubbish the country you live in (its an old fashioned offence called TREASON)...

Any other great tips out there on how to strengthen freedom of speech?

James said...

What a great post!Principled and clear and consise...who could haev written it...?

PHYSCO MILT!!!!!??????

WTF!!!!????

Have we slipped into the twilight zone?

Is Milty a secrect Lib...?!!

"I don't think freedom of speech is a right vs left issue."

No....more of a Lib vs the rest issue...


"Any other great tips out there on how to strengthen freedom of speech?

yeah! Do what the Libs want....all done.



;-)

KG said...

The truly fascinating thing about this case is that unelected judges seem to think that the degree of freedom of speech is theirs to decide.

In fact Wilders is being punished by an unelected elite for daring to challenge the multiculti orthodoxy of the day. How else to explain the fact that not one imam preaching hatred and calling for the murder of Jews and Westerners in general has been prosecuted?

Psycho Milt said...

How else to explain the fact that not one imam preaching hatred and calling for the murder of Jews and Westerners in general has been prosecuted?

Severe shortage of bollocks among the prosecutors, who are well aware that Wilders' supporters won't come looking to remove your head.

James: like I said, freedom of speech isn't a left vs right thing. Libertarians certainly have no monopoly on it.

KG said...

Petition in Support of Geert Wilders
http://www.petitiononline.com/wilders/petition.html

"..who are well aware that Wilders' supporters won't come looking to remove your head."
Exactly.

Anonymous said...

Psycho Milt: KG has put it more elegantly than I did, but that was the gist of what i was trying to get across.

If you go and live in another country surely you should abide by their rules, not try and enforce your own?
Go to Iran and tell them you want to see the blood of their soldiers running in the streets, I'd say you would last about 30 seconds before your head was removed from your shoulders right where you stood. (I don’t mean you personally PM)

Free speech is what separates us from the barbarians, but it cannot be one rule for them and one for us.
If I stood on Queen St tomorrow with a placard saying Muslims out, or I support Israel, or Death to all who support Palestinians, how long do you think i would last before:
a, I got my head kicked in, or
b, the police took me away for inciting racial hatred.

If on the other hand my messages were Pro Palestine/Muslim and directed in the same sick way towards the UK/US/Israelis then i think i may well be left alone (or even given thumbs up by some blinkered liberals!)

Like Dave M said
Free Speech gives a society dynamism and an atmosphere which encourages the exchange of ideas, philosophies and debate. The subdued, fearful and buttoned-down PC society is just the opposite and we should resist it with every effort we can.

Without it we are lost...

WAKE UP said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
WAKE UP said...

Sorry all, preceding post deleted, too many typos, I'm so ANGRY about this. Here we are:

------------------

The issue here is freedom of speech, no more, no less, no ifs, no buts, no shades of grey - you either subscribe to Freedom of Speech or you don't.

It doesn't belong to any specific political party, viewpoint or philosophy. (James, FYI, in passing - you're an immature fuckwit).

And it's the ONE THING that Islam detests most of all, because Muslims don't even allow THEMSELVES freedom of speech.

This is the tipping point. If we give in on this one, the game is up.

KG said...

"This is the tipping point. If we give in on this one, the game is up."
Oh yes--and the rest of what Wake Up said too.
Wilders is risking his liberty and his life to speak up. The very least we can do is take a minute to sign the petition.
It's the only power people have to register massive, passionate disapproval of the state's actions.

dad4justice said...

Power to the people. The state cannot control our freedom of expression. I have proudly signed the petition.

Psycho Milt said...

I signed the petition, but would like to note I'm taking a stand on principle here, not backing a man who was calling for the Qur'an to be banned not that long ago. The irony of supporting the freedom of speech of a wannabe book-banner isn't lost on me.

Pique Oil said...

What we have here is Judges Legislating from the bench.
They are there to judge on the law and not to place their own views ahead of the law.
With the condescending comment that they are prepared to allow him more leeway because he is a politician they have shown their belief that they are above the law.

FAIRFACTS MEDIA said...

Thanks PM for finding this.
Yes, I agree with you fully.
But also I am curious about Wilders wanting to ban the Koran.
It seems to contradict his free speech position.
Much as it is an evil book, it should be allowed to exist freely to show the barbaririty of the Muslim faith.
There again, the Bible has some gruyesome bits too.
At least Christianity has moved on from such literal interpretations.
Nonetheless, there is a greater case to ban the Koran for its incitement to violence.
As the report notes, all Wilders is doing is picking some juicy extracts of the Koran and noting the gorwth of the Muslim population.
The Netherlands was once seen as the hight of librealism, the most tolerant and free of the European countries.
However, the growing Islamic population is threatening this, through suppression of free speech as the ruling classes are scared os muslims.
There are also many reports of gays and women been attacked by muslims too.
Then we have the EU restructing the coffee shop culture.
I wonder if Amsterdam is the exciting place now that I saw in the late 1980s.
But yes, it does seem strange that unelected judges are dictating on free speech.

Anyway, here's the link to Fitna.
You may recall I posted the film when it first came out all those months ago.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=216_1207467783

Anonymous said...

I do business with a lot of cloggies. They are the most dissappointed crew at present. They point out that the Netherlands is the most tolerant of nations and this seems to be under threat from the mohummadan Morrocan and Turk hordes. Their crestfallen outlook is bewildering to me. They have let the barbarians through the gates and are puzzled that the city is being sacked. The cheeseheads are coming slowly to the conclusion that they are going to have to get hardheaded again.
This judicial traversty may be the tipping point. Heres hoping.

WAKE UP said...

The "banning the Koran" bit may not sit well, but look at it this way: if the world had known what was to follow the publication of "Mein Kampf", they might well have attempted to ban it at the time, as a tactic (war changes the rules).

In Wilders' favour on this is the fact that, had the Muslims not been allowed to descend on Holland in droves, almost nobody in Holland would have ever seen the Koran to begin with, let alone read it. So a case COULD be made that if the Muslim presence in Holland is undesirable (to put it mildly!) so is their damned book, and both should be ousted if, in fact, we are at war with Islam.

That's the specific case right here, right now. War makes its own rules.

-----------------

The general case, good ol' Western freedom of speech as a fact of daily life, is another matter: the problem is, as always, to be able defend freedom of speech while being alert to undesirable actions that may follow from it. We're actually pretty good at that as a way of life, but Muslims in the West have introduced an alien element into the equation: the problem with the Koran is that its adherents are now a world-wide case of rampaging, death-fixated arrested development. They should go home and take their damn book with them.