Tuesday, December 30, 2008

Israelis are so dumb!

So anyway, I bin worse places for Christmas, let me tell ya:



Which isn't to suggest that Israelis are dumb for not spending Christmas in Marlborough, I just wanted to let everyone know I've been doing alright for myself the past week or so.

I gave this post a counter-title to Fairfacts Media's post immediately below, as I'd come to completely the opposite conclusion.

Let's unpack it a bit:

You squash a huge number of people into a small space and deny them basic civil liberties. Oddly enough, this "gift" as Fairfacts puts it, far from inspiring gratitude in the recipients, annoys them sufficiently for them to start up a cottage industry in building little rockets they can fire at you. You respond with a blockade, removing any ability they had to make a living, but this only annoys them further. More rockets. You respond with full-on military force against civilian targets. For some strange reason this also only annoys them further.

Your military responses fail, because the cottage-industry rocket guys look like everyone else in the place and generally get to snigger from safety as you blow up yet another crowd of innocent civilians and stir up further hatred against you. You hope that the blockade and the military attacks will turn the population against the loony creeps who are the nearest thing to a govt in the place, but as anyone with even an elementary understanding of human nature could have warned you, the locals blame no-one but you for it and start up even more little rocket workshops.

Then one day the loony creeps unilaterally declare a cease-fire. For a while, the only time rockets come over are when you assassinate one of the loony creeps. Things quieten down. Cool!

Only problem is, the cease-fire has an expiry date. What to do? What to do? Hmm, what are the options?

1. Come to a deal with the guys in the cage so that they get their own state and their own govt. That way, there's somebody officially running the place and responsible for it, so they can get on with earning themselves a living without having you blockading them, and if rockets are coming over you've got somebody to hold accountable.

2. Offer to extend the cease-fire, ie if it ain't broke don't fix it.

3. Let the cease-fire expire, maintain your blockade, wait for the rockets to start coming over again and then, pow! Huge military response! That'll show 'em! They'll see that they're getting killed because of the loony creeps who are the nearest thing to a govt, and overthrow them! Er, despite that approach having failed every other time you've tried it.

And the winner was... approach 3. It makes you wonder if the Israeli leadership can walk and chew gum at the same time. These ass-clowns are in charge of one of the most powerful military forces on the planet and have a shitload nukes at their disposal, and yet their actions lead to you wonder if they're able to tie their own shoes. Doesn't that worry you right-wingers even a little bit?

Update 31 Dec: obviously I don't really think the Israelis are stupid, I was just winding you up. Continuing to pursue a military strategy that's failed conclusively on previous occasions is a failure that's afflicted many otherwise-sensible govts over the centuries. They do have aims for this bombardment, it's just that the aims have nothing to do with pin-prick rocket attacks. Neve Gordon explains them well - if, like most of the commenters below, you're still labouring under the delusion this has something to do with preventing further rocket attacks, I suggest you read it.

23 comments:

Anonymous said...

Yeah right the Israelis want rockets in their peoples backyards!
so they choose option 3.

How about loony fuckers in small space never want to stop firing rockets until they occupy your house and throw you and your kids into the sea.

get real you dipstick.
MikeNZ

Ruth said...

As has been said elsewhere, the real focal point of this isn't Gaza - it's Washington, D.C.

The object is to set the terms by which the Israelis will deal with the incoming U.S. president.

Anonymous said...

Crap.

1. Come to a deal with the guys in the cage so that they get their own state and their own govt

Yeah. Israel already did this fucker.


2. Offer to extend the cease-fire, ie if it ain't broke don't fix it.


and this one too. It was the Palestinian sub-humans who broke the ceasefire with their fucking ballistic missiles.

3. Let the cease-fire expire, maintain your blockade,

yep. least worst option.

Let's remember two things. 1: Hamas' stated aim is to wipe Israel off the face of the earth and kill the 8 MILLION citizens in there. That's right, Hamas' goals are worse than the Nazis
who only wanted to kill around 6 MILLION.

2: If Israel wanted to, they could quickly kill the 1.5 MILLION people in Gaza. In a matter of minutes.

Or they could just cut off power and water and medical supplies. Same result, but in weeks arther than minutes.

Israel has taken neither of these options.

That is the reality.

That is why Israel's response is very much restrained.

KG said...

What a load of utter, drooling idiocy--not to mention dishonesty.


"You squash a huge number of people into a small space and deny them basic civil liberties."
Nope--they've become a "huge number of people " since Israel was established--and they could have all the civil liberties they wanted if they'd simply give up terrorism. (what Aran country has a single Jewish member of parliament, or the equivalent body? None. Israel has several Arabs though)
"You respond with a blockade, removing any ability they had to make a living"
Really? They've been the recipients of billions of dollars in aid and have yet no proper universities, no major industries and schools which teach terrorism to five-year olds.
And when Israel handed over Gaza, they Palestinians were also handed an industry which could have easily supplied them and their children with fresh fruit and vegetables--yet within days they'd destroyed the greenhouses, the irrigation system and all the rest.
"Your military responses fail, because the cottage-industry rocket guys look like everyone else in the place and generally get to snigger from safety as you blow up yet another crowd of innocent civilians.."
No mention of the fact that the rocket launchers and mortars are deliberately placed next to schools and hospitals....

"Then one day the loony creeps unilaterally declare a cease-fire. For a while, the only time rockets come over are when you assassinate one of the loony creeps. Things quieten down. Cool!"
Simply not true--the rocket and mortar attacks have continued during every cease fire, without exception.
"Doesn't that worry you right-wingers even a little bit? "
What worries us "right wingers" is that leftards such as you are either so profoundly dishonest or stupefyingly uninformed that you couldn't recognise the truth if it bit you on the ass. Recycling anti-Israeli propaganda from the media isn't commentary--it's childish babbling.

MrTips said...

Every time I debate drugs now PM, I will point to the irrefutable and seemingly irreversible effects upon the brain as demonstrated by this post.

Lucyna Maria said...

Oh my goodness, I was thinking a similar thing, Mr Tips! It's the holidays and PM is probably smoking a bit more than normal.

Anonymous said...

Better an Israel you hate than an Auschwitz you love. Letting Hamas loose will give you the latter. They and their ilk are the threat to peace. It is really binary, stop the rockets-- live in peace. Keep on shooting them-- live in rubble and grief.

George

FAIRFACTS MEDIA said...

Good to see PM back in business and blogging again.
Glad you had a great holiday.
I wish I was in Marlboprough.
Anyway, did anyone see the protests in Iran calling for Israel to be wiped off the face of the Earth.
We have a situation of a people being led by Islamic militants but who care nothing for the people they supposedly serve.
While Hamas is in charge of Palestine, there will never be peace and the suffering of 'innocent' people will continue.
Israel will always respond to attacks.
It will only allow a land for peace deal on the West Bank only when it feels the surity of its nation and people are safe.

KG said...

aaah right--the Guardian as an authoritative source..
bawaahahaha!

Psycho Milt said...

So, Ruth is the only one on the right that doesn't take a straight "4 legs good, 2 legs bad" approach? Depressing but unsurprising.

For the rest of you, bottom line is that economic blockades and overwhelming military force against civilian targets have been tried by Israel numerous times since they pulled out of Gaza, and every time it's not merely failed, it's increased the militancy of its victims. This is simply a re-run of previous failures.

You can blather on all you like about what "the Palestinians" need to do, but given that there's no Palestinian state or govt, there's no entity that can act in their name. Sort that out, and then maybe you can talk shit about "the Palestinians" ought to be doing.

Psycho Milt said...

Mr Tips and Lucyna: that was distinctly uncalled-for. For the record, Milt has children and has barely touched non-alcoholic drugs since the first one was born over a decade ago. I'll refrain from the obvious retort making religion responsible for opinions of yours that I find ridiculous...

Psycho Milt said...

KG: you'll find the article is from the Guardian's "Comment" section, ie the author is not proclaimed an authoritative source either by them or me. The article does however give an excellent account of why the publicly stated aims of the Israeli attacks are bullshit.

MrTips said...

O cut the crocodile tears Milt. YOU posted on a drug induced meltdown earlier on NoMin without any prompting from us and verhemently debate a pro-drug stance in posts all over the place. YAWN.

Your post on Israel is incredibly stupid and shows either a remarkable level of naivity or a deliberate attempt to bag Israel because you can.

I for one was very dissapointed, your posts are normally better then that.

JC said...

All this talk about rights and wrongs is just so much bullshit. The Arab governments long ago ceded Israel it's right to existence and outsourced terrorism to the loonie fringes. Only Iran remains the terror master of the world with it's two vicious sidekicks in Hamas and Hezbollah.

All that's left is the pragmatic business of periodically culling the terrorists and putting up with the mindless, left wing whining of flat headed Baby Boomers still enamored of Che, the Cuban revolution and a dozen other brain dead movements of the 60s and 70s.

JC

Psycho Milt said...

Not crocodile tears, genuine annoyance. The incident you refer to happened over 20 years ago in my youth, as was clear enough from the post. I do post quite often in support of people's right to the recreational drugs of their choice, but that indicates nothing about my own choice. You, for instance, are writing in support of Israel without being Jewish yourself.

My post above was somewhat tongue in cheek, but quite correct in that military attacks on civilians are not going to get Israel any further this time than it has any of the other times. If you have some reason to consider that view "incredibly stupid," feel free to make a case for it.

Spam said...

Your military responses fail, because the cottage-industry rocket guys look like everyone else in the place and generally get to snigger from safety as you blow up yet another crowd of innocent civilians and stir up further hatred against you.

Which is the problem. They don't care about their own citizens getting blown-up, as long as it supports their cause.

Gooner said...

Milt, you should know by now. Israelis good, Palestinians bad. End of story. Forget the fact it takes two to tango and all that.

Milt, take two Aspirin and go to bed murmuring this: Israel good, Palestinians bad.

The problems in Gaza/West Bank are very complicated and as Ruth pointed out, geo-political. But to argue Israel is never the culprit; is never wrong; and is never to blame is specious.

Psycho Milt said...

They don't care about their own citizens getting blown-up...

I saw Tzipi Livni expressing outrage along the same lines on the news yesterday. Yes Tzipi, Hamas doesn't care that you guys murder Palestinian civilians en masse, because those murders increase their support. And yet you keep doing it - you deliberately trying to help them, or what?

Likewise, the more extremist Israeli politicians don't care when Palestinians murder Israelis, because those murders only increase their support, so Hamas aren't very bright either. But what kind of recommendation is that for politicians in a modern Western democracy - "no worse than Hamas?"

But to argue Israel is never the culprit; is never wrong; and is never to blame is specious.

Exactly. Most of the people ranting at me on this thread and FFM's one know damn well I've lived in the Middle East and have no illusions about Arab culture. There's a substantial proportion of the population in that world who hate the Jews, and way more because of the humiliation that's been inflicted on their sense of cultural self-importance by the Jews since 1948 than because of any actual injustices involved. I don't doubt there's a significant proportion that would only celebrate if the Israelis were wiped out to the last baby.

So what? We're talking here about Third Worlders with a backward culture. Israel is more powerful militarily than the lot of them put together and nuclear-armed to boot. More important, Israelis are not Third Worlders and not from a backward culture, so you bet I'm going to hold them to Western standards. If you want to take the moral high ground against people mounting guerilla attacks against you, it helps no end if you're not occupying their land and destroying their own ambitions to statehood. Sort that out, then come to us with your sob stories and maybe we'll pay some attention.

Anonymous said...

Neve Gordon is dumb as well as callow. Talk to your enemies...make a deal. Yeah like talk to a cobra...

FAIRFACTS MEDIA said...

Thanks PM. I appreciate the time you have had in the Middle east and I always appreciate your comments.
Indeed, because you have been there and experienced things for yourself, your view may often carry more weight such as myself and others.
I'm not saying the Israelis are angels but they are behaving in a far more civilised manner than the Palestinian Islamist extermists.
I see on other blogs Hamas is reinstating crucifixions, which hardly seems the mark of progress , is it?

Anyway, at least Palestine has given us something to get steamed up about over the festive season.

Gooner, are you having one of your pinko, commie wet liberal moments again?
Or are you just being sarcastic?

Mark said...

Psyhco, so your justification is that because Arabs somehow feel less of themselves that Israel has maintained a successful state in the Middle East where they have always existed that justifies there dreams and actions for genocide.

The Gaza strip also shares a border with Eygpt so it's not a prison. Isarel shares no border with no friendly countries.

Israel allows aid to be sent to Gaza through it's borders.

There was no ceasefire by Hames in Gaza, they continued to fire rockects and mortars at Israel during the so call truce.

Arabs should really look at their own leaders as to why their own countries are so crap and stop blaming others.

And Hamas the wonderful people they are got rid of the opposition party Fatah by killing thier own people.

Mass murders never had it so good because of dopey lefty morons.

Psycho Milt said...

No, I'm sorry. I started a couple of attempts at treating your comment as though it were made by someone I should take seriously, but really, why should I? You misrepresent my views and regurgitate the most lame propaganda as though it were fact, so fuck it, you're not getting any polite response.

Gooner said...

FFM, nah, I like to think I don't have those 'pinko' moments as Whale Oil phrases them. I support Israel more than I support the murdering Hamas militants and their blood-brothers - the Iranians and the Islamofascists. But I also like to think I am objective rather than one-eyed and parochial to the point of being blind.