Monday, September 29, 2008

White middle class bigotry

I wasn't surprised by Peter Brown's comments that immigrants should "integrate or stay away" and that "New Zealand First...will not welcome immigrants if they come from societies with a "class system" or where women are treated as subservient to men" but I am surprised by the online Herald response.

I suggest that if you are choking on your cornflakes this morning, take a good look at the photo of Brown as it'll sure make you regurgitate it straight back up again. What a pig of a man.

My view is that immigrants can come here and do whatever they like as long as they follow our laws.

If they want to wear Burkas, they can wear Burkas. If they want to talk Mandarin let them talk Mandarin. I love the diversity our immigrants bring.

What does Brown want? Dress them all in tight Levi's with Caterpillar boots and Waikato Chiefs rugby jerseys?

Because that's about the best most Kiwi blokes can offer up.

Boguns or Burkas? I'll take Burkas.


Ackers said...

"New Zealand First...will not welcome immigrants if they come from societies with a "class system"

Coming from a pommy immigrant that's pretty bloody funny.

Anonymous said...

I see where he is coming from. but I hav'nt heard him say it exactly.

This guy is old enough to remember the shellacking Enoch Powell got about immigrants who don't assimilate. Unwelcome though his words were they turned out to be very prophetic about the UK.

Why should things be different here? I'm not holding any brief for NZ First either.

PaulL said...

My view is that he was nearly right. We don't welcome here people who want to bring with them a culture that is class based, or that denigrates women. However, if they're trying to leave that culture behind, then they're sure as hell welcome.

Redbaiter said...

The funny thing is Gooner, if there is any truth to the claim that western European Jeudo Christian Culture has degengerated, its down to the influence of pseudo liberals like yourself.

I almost vomit every time I hear you whine piteously about "diversity". The truth is that our culture has been used as a doormat by every other subordinate culture out there, and PC dickwads like you have directed the very hate and intolerance you accuse others of at anyone who has dared to differ with your pathetic shallow and trendy views.

Ask any Sydney sider of European descent if he enjoys the cultural "diversity" the Lebanese have brought to that city. Ask the Danes what they think of it. Or the English.

There is an argument to be made against mass immigration of differing cultures. Your vicious assaults on anyone who tries to make that argument is anti-democratic totalitarian bullshit and bigotry itself.

Psycho Milt said...

Ooh yes, what a vicious assault Gooner! Redbaiter's a very brave man for taking a stand against your anti-democratic totalitarianism - after all, a vicious assaulter like you might retaliate against him with some kind of... er, disagreement...

Top quote on this from Maia over at the Hand Mirror:

...if you lived somewhere without a class system where women have free and equal lives, then why would you move to new Zealand?

Yo some extent, Brown's got a point: I don't want Third Worlders bringing here the very ideas and beliefs that make the countries they're trying to leave so shitty. On the other hand, lots of people who were born here have shitty ideas and beliefs, and as long as they obey our laws we let them live here. You gots to take the rough with the smooth.

Simon said...

What is the law that spells out the separation of the church (religion) and the state?

Ackers said...

As a Sydneysider Redbaiter I can definitely say I enjoy the cultural diversity the Lebanese have brought to the city. Likewise, Pakistanis, Russians, Jews, Iraqism Iranians, Koreans etc etc.

It's one of the joys of Sydney and one of the things that differentiates it from Auckland where I lived previously.

What's not so nice are the white folk out at Camden where I fly from most weekends.

Nasty overweight bigots I suspect you would feel very comfortable with.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Shit! Ackers flies! And they closed down our strike wing.

Anonymous said...

So redbaiter you're saying "fuck off out of our country".

I couldn't agree more. So, when are you leaving?


Observer said...

lpdklbintegration vs assimilation is the real issue here isn't it?

The USA has good and bad examples of both. New York city is a place where assimilation has worked well, just about everyone there is a nu yorker and proud of it, it just takes one generation to lose the 'habits' of 'the old land'!

Go down to the bayous and St. Louis and you'll find some very integrated but unassimilated folks! Go to LA and look at the way locals (i.e. bred, born and raised in the city) have developed unintegrated and unassimilated communities of their own, that have no respect for the "American" culture. All have pluses and minuses - depending on what position you hold relative to them.

The greatest value from multiculturalism is, IMHO, when there is integration without total assimilation. Where everyone wears clothes suited to the climate (unlike the lady I saw this morning on the wet and windy streets of Wellington in a silk sari,) speaks English to year 10 level at least, and has a general understanding and observance of the laws of the land. (This last is not easy for some, who come from places where our concept of 'common law' even when explained in detail - you know, it's what the 'common man' would hold to be right - doesn't make sense because our common man and theirs have totally different experiences to build on!) While at the same time retaining their gastronomic heritage (who doesn't like a Chinese or Indian or Italian or Mexican or, or, or or meal quite often), their arts, crafts, religions and traditions alive and of value to the 'local' generations.

I don't agree with some immigrant friends of mine, who want to send their children to school in 'national dress' and take them out of school for their religion's holy days. When I lived in Saudi Arabia I worked on Christmas day and Easter Sunday, my days off were those of the local calendar and that was as it should be.

The challenge to New Zealanders is to define New Zealanders, not as Maori - the first wave of invaders, not as WASPs, not as Asians or Indians or any other general classification, but singularly as people who, from choice, want to live on our six islands in peace and harmony with a standard of living in the top decile in the world. Then we will have a land of multicultural harmony, economic growth and social peace.

Sus said...

I welcome anybody from anywhere who wishes to improve their lives by settling here, providing they waive the right to state welfare.

I have no truck with NZF xenophobia. But when you come here, the rule of 'Rome' applies. If that doesn't suit, find another place to live.

However, ANYBODY who tells me that we must accept barking mad, archaic practices such as female circumcision on "cultural" grounds, will get short shrift indeed.

Sus said...

Whoops! That should be 'right' to state welfare. ;)

WAKE UP said...

Keep calm and carry on, everyone.

As ever, some of the tragic NZ First's platform may be correct - but, also as ever, they're the wrong messengers.

This whole topic of immigration, ABOUT WHICH EVERY VESTED INTEREST IS IN DEEP DENIAL, needs much deeper thought and analysis than Brown offers - and much more considered responses than we've seen so far, including some here.

And Gooner - and I mean this in the nicest way - if you'll take burkas over bogans, I'm going to assume you're not a woman. The sight of Aussie-domiciled Muslim men drooling over blondes and boobs at Bondi, while their wives swelter in black, makes ME vomit.

And as I say back here in Godzone: what's the point of owning the foreshore if you're going to end up having to wear a burka at the beach? It's a numbers game, mate.

Immigration is one topic about which we should be getting HEAVIER, not lighter. The migrant flow is inexorably East to West for many reasons about which we should Wake Up - the primary one being that the West was essentially made modern by the culture of Peter Brown's forebears, who built this country, among others. Brown's ineptitude aside (shame really), he is absolutely entitled to speak for that culture.

And no, I'm not voting NZ First either. Nor the Maori party.

Ackers said...

I do Adolf (fly) or more precisely my partner does so I do a bit of navigating and occasionally take over the controls. Haven't had a crash yet, the end of my blogging if we do!

Way too much fun though guaranteed to keep you in penury the way fuel prices are these days.

Sus said...

" .. if you'll take burkas over bogans, I'm going to assume you're not a woman. The sight of Aussie-domiciled Muslim men drooling over blondes and boobs at Bondi, while their wives swelter in black, makes ME vomit."

Me, too. I detest the Burqua and all it stands for, but I recognise the right of a woman to wear it if she wishes. (As opposed to being forced to. Funny how the women's groups are notoriously mute upon issues of Third World gender inequality, isn't it?).

The problem occurs when her demands are given legal importance over the rest of the popn, eg workplaces being forced by law to separate the sexes, etc.

Rome applies. Or bloody well should.

KG said...

What Sus, Wake Up and Observers said.

ISeeRed said...

Oh yes, a Muslim woman can wear a burka "if she wishes". Why, there's no coercion, stigma or threat of retaliation from her male religious overlords whatsoever. Funny how radical feminists suddenly stop talking about the "patriarchy" when this subject comes up.

Sus said...

Hey Iseered .. read what I bloody said again, you twat.

Go on, *read* it! But properly, this time. Every-bloody-word-of-both-posts. You won't find a word in defence of coercion.

"Radical feminists"? WTF?

He'll be calling me a communist next, KG. ;)

ISeeRed said...

sus, I am indeed a twat! Sorry! :-)

KG said...

lol! Just as well the two of you agree on the basics then..I can't stand the sight of blood...;-)

Sus said...

Apology graciously (and a tad sanctimoniously!) accepted, Iseered. Your bandaids are not needed, KG. :)

In the cold light of morning, I admit to being pretty rude. It's just that the inference of my being a member of the politically correct sisterhood is just about the worst insult, imaginable! ;)

ISeeRed said...

sus, for the record, I wasn't implying YOU were a radical feminist. No wonder you got your knickers, er, Y-fronts in a twist. :-)