Sunday, March 30, 2008

The growing take home pay chasm


Bill Ralston in the Herald on Sunday notes the growing chasm between take-home wages at this side of the tasman, compared with those in Australia.
As Sir Roger Douglas noted the other week, New Zealanders are now poorer than the poorest Australians- the Tasmanians-, by $100 a week.
A few days ago, Bill English made a similar point, noting how Liarbour's tax rises have impacted on Kiwis, while Australians have enjoyed continuing taxcuts, taxcuts set to cointinue even under Liarbor PM Kevin Rudd.
This has helped fuel the growing exodus of Kiwis over the ditch as the growing wealth gap proves too much. Our extra high interest rates fuelled by Liarbour's rampant growth in public spending hasn't helped matters either.
And such a lack of confidence in New Zealand under Dear Leader is not just the feeling of ordinary New Zealanders, but Liarbour MPs like Dover Samuels, who are heading overseas, but as Whale Oil notes, even ardent party activists and Clarkists like Pamziewamzie of RedConfectionary, who now works for the New South Wales public service.

15 comments:

Anonymous said...

Not a lot of mention is made in NZ how Rudd is also cutting spending by about 10 Billion. Didnt stop the Aussies voting for him either.

Psycho Milt said...

You concentrate on taxes because it's politically expedient to do so. Fact is, if tax rates here were 0% Aussies would still be better off. Perhaps if National gets in it could embark on a process of strengthening unions in NZ, to build workforce unionisation up to Aussie levels? That would sort the take-home pay gap within a reasonable timeframe. I wait with bated breath for Key or English to announce their plans...

Clunking Fist said...

Yeah, but psycho, UNEMPLOYMENT would increase as well. Remember, its called "ECONOMICS".

Psycho Milt said...

You can call it what you like Clunking Fist, but as I recall, the last National govt pursued a policy of breaking unions that went along with a rate of unemployment to make today look like the golden age it is, for the express purpose of keeping wages low. There's no sign of their current policy being any different, so exactly how voting these clowns back in again would solve the trans-Tasman pay gap is not immediately obvious. If there is some "economics" liturgy you can spout to turn this black into white, please go ahead and spout it.

FAIRFACTS MEDIA said...

Well PM, National don't appear to have sorted out an effective policy on bridging the trans-Tasman gap.
But it is still early days.
At least this is an issue that ACT is campaigning on- to bring the Children Home.

Muriel Newman looks at the issue in her latest newsletter and notes how flat taxes have helped create the Baltic tigers.

http://au.f327.mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter?MsgId=1037_2940405_562645_4738_91664_0_55792_158650_256421898&Idx=0&YY=55211&y5beta=yes&y5beta=yes&inc=25&order=down&sort=date&pos=0&view=a&head=b&box=Inbox


Roger Douglas also explains his views at great length.

Debateable the issue is, at least ACT has stepped up and is tackling the issue.
Liarbour seems to ignore the reality of it.
What shall we do?
Become Australia's 8th? and 9th state?

FAIRFACTS MEDIA said...

This might work better

http://www.nzcpr.com/

Anonymous said...

No one mentions the weather and simple facts like any Kiwi with a sense of adventure is going to head this way anyway or go further afield as many do. Much like people from Perth, Adelaide and Brisbane inevitably head for Melbourne or Sydney, bigger more cosmopolitan cities...it's not just a matter of economics.

Harpoon said...

FM: Do you think it would help if NZ employers increased gross wages? If not, why not? If so, why aren't you having a go at Business NZ for being a bunch of money grubbing capitalist misers?

Anonymous said...

Fuck it's easy to spot the stupid, uneducated proletariat who went to NZ's state schools and universtiies!

First: we're comparing with Tasmania, not with Sydney! It's even easier to go to Sydney or Melbourne from Tassie than it is here - so you'd expect more people to leave and less to be left. What's more, NZ has an export economy, a population of 4million, while Tassie has 400,000 and no agriculture or manufacturing, and nowhere near NZ's tourism income.

If the income in Tassie (counting super contributions) is almost 50% bigger than in NZ, then in Sydney it is twice as much. Even in the scumsucking public service!


Secondly, the fucking problem is productivity not wages. Raising wages in NZ just makes productivity that much worse. Hardworking Kiwis work 60 hours a week - why should bludgets and public servants arrive at 9am, leave at 5pm and have weekends off? Changes like that - and as Roger Douglas says:once and for all getting rid of state schools. state hospitals, the pointless ministries, and all the rest, are the only hope NZ has to remain viable as a first-world country.

Otherwise we'll be begging to be let in to Aussie - and the way our economy is today, we wouldn't even qualify as state: we'd be a dependent terrority ruled by a clapped-out Labor party governor - a superannuated pollie who lost a factional battle in Sussex Street in Sydney

And you know what: we'd probably be better off.
At least it would be clear who you paid to get a building consent!

Anonymous said...

Baltic Tiger flat tax?

Tell you what: let's adopt Lavtia's personal tax rates 34% flat rate from the first euro you earn

http://www.worldwide-tax.com/latvia/latvia_tax.asp

Oh yeah - and your employer pays another fucking 30% social security contribution.

But look on the good side: company tax rate is 15%.


Frankly I've a better idea: Corporate tax rate: zero.
GST: 20%. Personal income tax: Flat 20% on income up to 100K, then zero.

SHould be enough to run the police & army, & pay war pension. Fuck the rest.

Psycho Milt said...

Secondly, the fucking problem is productivity not wages. Raising wages in NZ just makes productivity that much worse. Hardworking Kiwis work 60 hours a week - why should bludgets and public servants arrive at 9am, leave at 5pm and have weekends off? Changes like that - and as Roger Douglas says:once and for all getting rid of state schools. state hospitals, the pointless ministries, and all the rest, are the only hope NZ has to remain viable as a first-world country.

You really need to learn some breathing exercises or something, anonymous loony, you're going to burst a blood vessel the way you're going.

Anyhoo - you're saying the only hope of NZ remaining a first-world country is for us to work 60 hours a week and scrap public education and health. This would make us first-world like, er, who exactly? Your prescription sounds more like the arse end of Asia than a first world country. In terms of productivity, France is tops because their GDP is turned out by people who are often only putting in a 35-hour week - having them work 60 hours would lower their productivity pretty drastically. Simplistic solutions generally have the characteristic of being crap, and yours is a good example.

Anonymous said...

Ahh Psycho - another great product of NZ's state-controlled schools and universities...


It would make NZ a first world country like the US, like Singapore, and like Hong Kong.

France's economy is going down the tubes; that 35-hour week is about to be repealed by Sarko; and either the EU will get with the programme or (as is currently happening) every single one of its companies will be bought up by India and China.

But that's the problem with state schools, isn't it: they don't even teach you basic mathematics. And the mathematics in this case are simple: unless we are more productive than the US or Singapore, we will not be able to pay our way as a country.

Thanks to Helen: we aren't and we can't.

Psycho Milt said...

Ahh Psycho - another great product of NZ's state-controlled schools and universities...

You write this as though it actually meant something. It doesn't. And your own sterling efforts in putting ideology ahead of facts doesn't say much for your own education. Hopefully it wasn't expensive, because the expense was clearly wasted.

It would make NZ a first world country like the US, like Singapore, and like Hong Kong.

Oh, wonderful. Singapore and Hong Kong are authoritarian states, so let's please not emulate them. The US has an even more horrendous tax system than us, and last time I looked did have a public school system and public servants who work fixed hours. Any contenders that match your prescription and are also democracies?

My point re France is that productivity isn't as simple as you make it out to be. For instance, Australia (you know, the country the post was actually about) has higher productivity than us, with a similar tax structure, a much more highly unionised workforce and similar public services. Oddly enough they haven't followed you prescription, aren't authoritarian shitholes like Singapore and Hong Kong, and still manage to be first world.

Clunking Fist said...

Psycho is right about productivity not being simple!
Australia is "blessed" with a larger population, hence a larger market.
A jam manufacturing business in NZ looking to employ a marketing manager will be able to recope that extra cost (initially) in a maximum market size of 4million. In Australia, that same business will be looking at a lot of the 21M Aussie pop. That is part of productivity: total production divided by your costs (people being a big part of the cost).

Clunking Fist said...

Oh, and a big part of productivity is a countries output (stuff or services that folk are prepared to pay for) divided by the population. So if more people were working in real jobs, then output would increase. That's why the public service need to be downsized: who the fuck would be prepared to pay for the output of, for instance, the Families Commission? Sorry, Mr Done: it's a waste of my tax dollars.
And lets not get started on those folk who are too feeble (minded?) to work, but collect a benefit instead. Some of them are genuine, but we all know that a lot aren't. They be better served stocking shelves or flipping burgers.

"But that's not a worthwhile job!"
It fucking is: people are prepared to pay good money for burgers.