Saturday, December 15, 2007

Pearls before swine

I'm sure most of the readers of this blog, being right-wingers, will have missed the discussions about Public Address: System taking place on some lefty blogs over the last week or so. Ironic really, since most of you (Kimble, you out there?) would probably enjoy the sight of PA System being declared not left enough, not feminist enough, not ethnic enough - in short, too full of White, Middle-aged (ya cheeky c*nts) Men.

Executive summary: Tze Ming Mok left recently, and left a few parting shots at the WMM commenters who populate the PA System comment threads. This was taken up by Deborah at In a Strange Land, disputed by Che Tibby at Object Dart and endorsed by Shea at New Freeland.

It all highlights a depressing radicaler-than-thou tendency on the left, not to mention the liberal leftist tendency to look at any creative activity that doesn't fit their personal prejudices regarding how the world should be, and start wondering how it could be forced into a box of dull, bureaucratic conformity. This depressing tendency had its apotheosis in the current discussion with Jolisa Gracewood suggesting a quota (tongue-in-cheek? Christ, I can only hope so...)

Fairly easy to see where I'm coming from on this - I'm white, male, around the same age as Russell Brown and have the same fond memories of bands of yesteryear, so the kind of online community existing at Public Address isn't one I'm likely to have a problem with. Younger, lefter, feministier people however, clearly do have a problem with it. Here's Deborah:

Tze Ming doesn’t feel welcome at Public Address. The crowd there can’t cope with difference, with views that provoke and challenge them to change their own thinking and behaviour. They are accustomed to thinking of themselves as the good guys, the liberals, the ones who are on the morally right side of issues. When Tze Ming comes along and jolts them out of their liberal complacency, the typical reaction is to howl complaint, and to refuse to recognize when their own behaviour embodies the very attitudes and behaviours they are decrying.

Well, that's one opinion. Mine would phrase it more like "When Tze Ming posts something they disagree with, they write in and say so, and say why." Life's tough, huh bud? I can't get to grips with this concept that radicals with a view held by a tiny minority of the population must be nurtured like a delicate flower, rather than told exactly why their ideas are minority ones. Over the long term, people who make you learn how to form an argument for your position and defend it are doing you a favour, not hurting you.

Deborah inadvertently explains exactly why the PA System threads mainly consist of WMM commenters:

I would love to get in there and be provocative, but I have been slapped down a couple of times, and I’m just not up for it again. A couple of weeks ago one regular commenter made a gratuitously sexist reference to women politicians… and I longed to post something pointing out exactly what the problem was with the phrasing, but I do not have the energy to do it, nor the emotional wherewithal to withstand the rebukes that would come my way.

In other words, "I disagreed but couldn't be arsed saying so, and anyway I got sick of people writing back arguing with me." If feminists can only comment when everyone else can be relied on to avoid disputing their opinions, is it any wonder they're in short supply on blog comments threads?

My impression of PA System is that the reason left-wing and right-wing extremists avoid commenting there is that their arguments would quickly be shredded by some very sharp intellects. I flatter myself I can put a reasonably good argument together, but I'm still damn careful about what I post on PA System. That may be very annoying for radicals, but there's only one real solution:

hone your writing skills on lesser blogs by actually debating people who disagree with you, rather than simply whinging about how unpleasant they are, and take your arguments to PA System when you've got the confidence you can defend them.

And for those who think a team blog has to be forced into some kind of United Nations representative model for it to have any credibility: go and make your own instead of trying to blather some other poor sod into providing it, why don't you?

24 comments:

dad4justice said...

"My impression of PA System is that the reason left-wing and right-wing extremists avoid commenting there is that their arguments would quickly be shredded by some very sharp intellects."

Sorry to be a thorn in the side of the thicko left - doh brains , however Russell Brown is a dumb coward. I posted 50 comments on the Paris Hilton blog before the soft socialist manipulators said I was banned . I am asked him time and time again , what for , but to no avail ? The fact he had to ban me was that I was shredding the lunkhead confused plaything academics that were playing the pathetic talk crap routine . What a bunch of pc gutless wimps . Hey Mr Brown , what you say jellyfish ?

Milt don't ever put the Paris Hilton blog in the same sentence as intellectual , please mate .

sagenz said...

F me that was a great post milt. strength of ideas. I have not been a regular commenter at PA but I had not to this point formed the impression it was a WMM audience having seen a number of great slapdowns from feminine handles.

But I share your view about the need to have a good argument over there

d4j. perhaps you are not even smart enough to realise you were being shredded. Look in the mirror fella! You have some good principles but the enunciation is woefully lacking.

dad4justice said...

"perhaps you are not even smart enough to realise you were being shredded.'

Come onto stuff sagenz and have a go , go on , go on , as the red team need a big - big - big hand today ? What losers .Poor nanny state supporters . Don't ever insult my intelligence you foolish drop kick !

To be "shredded" by a slime is impossible . Go suck a loopypop in your deluded liberal empire , creep .

dad4justice said...

Psycho Milt ; could you please tell one of those learned writers from Public Address to go into bat, pad up girls , go Debbie, for the Aunty Helen team today, as she needs some runs on the vacant scoreboard. Yeah right , I suppose her press sec will have to do it again.Another golden duck ?

I expect an apology from you one day Mr Russel Brown, as justice is coming quickly .Payback is sweet .

Do all have a good day .

Psycho Milt said...

Thanks for dropping by, Sage - oddly enough, you're one of the people I was thinking of with "...people who make you learn how to form an argument for your position and defend it are doing you a favour..."

Dad4justice, I have to ask: did you get banned at PA after writing 50 comments in the same commenting style you use on other blogs? You see, although I quite genuinely credit you as an intelligent and educated man, it's very rare to see you argue a point - mostly, what I see in your comments is a kind of string-of-consciousness barrage of opinion and assertion interspersed with vile abuse. That's not a problem on right-wing blogs like No Minister, because right-wingers (and I) tend to rate letting people speak their mind much higher than this "safe and comfortable environment" load of old cobblers. But that often doesn't hold true for left-wing blogs, and I'm quite comfortable with the concept of the blog owner's absolute, 100% right to run the blog as they see fit. If you piss the blog owner off and they ban you, it doesn't make them a coward, it just makes them quite legitimately the absolute dictator of their own blog.

Psycho Milt said...

Er - the above notwithstanding, I still stand by the view expressed in this earlier post.

dad4justice said...

Whatever psycho milt - Mr Brown set me up because I was getting the better of the idiots , the dumb fink , what's the point .

Are you internet wacko's so mouthy in real life ?Post all the links in the world softy dear , who cares !! No more Mr Nice Guy . Just look at insidious tactic's of a gutter Prime Minister Klark huckster !!
Face to face cowards usually run .

sagenz said...

d4j - the point is to be taken more seriously. when your child or partner has a tantrum you dont pay attention to the mean things they say. when they speak rationally calmly and logically you pay more attention even if you dont like the message.

when people talk crap take the piss out of them. there is no point abusing a wall. it does not know any better. there is a fine line between abuse and mickey taking and you are well over it.

strength is about control. you do the your arguments no favours by being mr angry and abusive.

when you first started posting you seemed to be a lot calmer and more controlled. Not sure what changed.

and yes - I would say the same thing to your face. access of fathers to their children is too important an issue to lose the credibility stakes through being mr angry

Bobux said...

PM

Good post.

50 d4j posts? What had Russell Brown done in an earlier life to deserve that?

dad4justice said...

Oh yes Mr Angry , play that card you wimps . Russell Brown is a gutless eunuch . Really you lefty twits are total kiwifruits , get a life you dirt bags . Helen Clark should be in prison and so should any prick silly enough too support the insane maggot !!

Redbaiter said...

Nice to see Milt confessing to the fact that the left customarily prefer 'safe and comfortable' to any real discussion. He's right. Public Address is an attempt at leftist elitism, populated by pompous puffed up commies who will talk till the cows come home about how many of our rights can be trampled on, and how hard they can be trampled on, and when they can be trampled on, but will attempt to marginalize anyone who asserts that rights should not be trampled on.

Its another manifestation of the sick leftist mindset that prevails here (NZ), in that anything is OK as long as it is "democratically" approved by a perverted democratic process and voted on by brainwashed and subliminally influenced leftist robots ignorant of so much but thoroughly inculcated indoctrinated and inducted into that smug leftist club that believe they are born (and educated) to rule. In so far as blogs can produce atmosphere, I find the one at Public Address smug, parsimonious and repellent. Full of the stench of arrogance and ignorance.

Sage's shallow and patronizing advice to D4J here is another good example of the same elitist mentality. Doubly irritating because the lecturer is such a fuckwit. Tell me Sage, what is it about you that causes you to believe you have the right to preach to D4J so arrogantly? I'll take a guess. You're a primary school teacher right? Schooling littlies in how to be good socialists. Helping them grow into what you perceive as model citizens who will go on and upwards and build the great one world socialist utopia that you dream of. A politically one dimensional loser with the worldly experience of a fungus, perverting education into a induction course for socialism. ..and you have the fucken nerve to lecture about "access to children". Ugh. Nausea inducing.

Psycho Milt said...

Nice to see Milt confessing to the fact that the left customarily prefer 'safe and comfortable' to any real discussion.

Shock confession: leftists not perfect, says Psycho Milt. I mean, really - when left-wing bloggers talk about a "safe and comfortable environment" for commenting, they mean weeding out precisely the kind of streams of abuse-laden assertion that you and Dad4Justice provide examples of in this thread. I may disagree with their approach, but I can certainly understand why they don't regard stuff like

Helen Clark should be in prison and so should any prick silly enough too support the insane maggot !!

or

...puffed up commies who will talk till the cows come home about how many of our rights can be trampled on...

as representing "real discussion."

dad4justice said...

Psycho Milt you want evidence about the fraudulent life of Helen Clark ?

All will be revealed pre election,talk about pearl necklaces and twisted swine's, as file numbers have a habit of sticking around eh ? Talk about profanity and vulgarity!!

Keep pushing ladies as you're going to get burnt real bad . Nothing can stop what she has coming to her.

sage - school teacher type - go Captain the All Blacks you sad wowser !!

Redbaiter said...

"as representing "real discussion.""

Of course you don't. That's the point mungbean. You will disallow real dissent on the subjective grounds that it isn't "real discussion", but in truth its because it offends your stinking leftist sensibilities and undermines your own self image as a sharing caring commie. Its the very point I was trying to make on NZ Conservative. You have the right cowering in miserable subservience to your stinking ideas. To the extent that they're prepared to "oh shucks" with ruthless amoral scum like Robinson, in the mistaken idea that it shows them to be tolerant and kind and understanding. Fuck that mate, I'll never regard his kind, and anyone else who wants to rob me and my family of what's lawfully ours, and use it as an inducement to persuade the ignorant unwashed to vote them into power, as anything other than a sad stain on society and someone I want as little to do with as possible at any level. ..and I don't give a fuck how they see me. I want them off my fucken back and out of my life. End of story.

Psycho Milt said...

You will disallow real dissnt... etc.

Not sure who the "you" you're addressing here is - as I've pointed out, "safe and comfortable environment" isn't No Minister's thing.

I'm glad you raised the subject of NZ Conservative, though (because I'd never post this on one of their comments threads, but you've helpfully broached the subject on my blog). You're fully entitled to regard your political opponents as unworthy of common decency of course - go for it. But it's not a view commonly shared, certainly not at No Minister or NZ Conservative, anyway. Lucyna's run an open chat thread on Friday evenings since I don't know when - since well before I joined her at Sir Humphreys, anyway - and that thread's always been about us as humans rather than political activists. Given your views, I don't expect you to understand that, but you should at least be able to understand the concept that when a blog owner starts an open chat thread, it displays an astounding lack of respect for that blog owner for you to turn up there and start telling the participants who's welcome there and who isn't. If you go back there, you'll note that once Lucyna arrived back and discovered the abuse you, D4J and Grant S were directing at Robinson, she closed the thread. Have a think about why she might have done that, and if you have an ounce of common decency in you, email her an apology.

Redbaiter said...

"Have a think about why she might have done that, and if you have an ounce of common decency in you, email her an apology."

Fuck you you arrogant commie cunt. What would you ever know about common decency?? You support a political ideology that is an insult to anyone possessing any vestige of civilized notions.

I'll apologise to whom I wish when I wish. The totalitarians (your faction Milt) are winning in this country because the damn so called right have let them, and as for the Christians, the lack of fight they have shown, when they have been under attack from the secular progressives much more than anyone else, is a disgrace.

I've participated in FNFFA before. I understand what it is about. I don't think its a place for a stinking lowlife like Robinson, who has proved himself to be one of the most venal characters on the net, (he even admits it) to surface and try and pull the weak con that he's really not such a bad fellow after all. Fuck that. I want people in NZ to awaken from their slumbers, cease being intimidated by the left, and start treating leftists in public as the kind of immoral stealing corrupt democracy perverting totalitarian bastards they really are. (and Robinson is one of the worst) I want Conservatives to stop pretending you're decent people. I want them to confront you every day and every where on your poisonous destructive and immoral ideology. It has to happen and it will happen. We have to restore this country and we have to destroy the social and political tyranny that prevails, the mindset that says one cannot speak about leftism in terms of the corrupt and destructive social disease it really is.

Redbaiter said...

I withdraw and apologise for the intemperate use of the word cunt. Arsehole will suffice.

Psycho Milt said...

It's alright, cunt is allowed here. (Hmm, that didn't come out quite right.)

KG said...

I definitely want Redbaiter on board at Crusader Rabbit as a contributor.
Anyone who loathes the left that much is a friend of mine.:-)

Psycho Milt said...

Nearly forgot:

I want Conservatives to stop pretending you're decent people. I want them to confront you every day and every where on your poisonous destructive and immoral ideology. It has to happen and it will happen.

Sounds like what you need is an Endloesung. You could make us wear some kind of badge so people will know who we are and know to have no dealings with us. Yellow star's been done, but red star would be perfect!

Grant S said...

"You could make us wear some kind of badge so people will know who we are and know to have no dealings with us"

Y'know, I could fritter away valuable bandwidth pointing out how palpably absurd that comment is, but what's the fucking use? Typical fucken Leftists - their beliefs serve their ego rather than reality, Leftists just intrinsically KNOW what is good for us. Conservatives need evidence, apparently.

Psycho Milt said...

Absurdity seemed the appropriate response to absurdity. Have posted a more serious response here.

Anonymous said...

My impression of the PA system is summed up by the term 'circle jerk'.Still, at least it's civil.

The very few times I've ever read the 'writings' of Tze Mok, I've come away wondering how one person can have some much hate built up inside them.

Her own blog will be best for all I think.

EXOCET

sagenz said...

d4j& rb - la la la, lala, la la,
gibber, witter, dribble.

whatever! I have better things to do with life than engage in verbal masturbation. get over yourselves. Or don't! It makes me laugh anyway.