Sunday, September 16, 2007

I may disagree with what you say, blah blah blah

I was over on this thread at Kiwiblog yesterday evening, sucked in once again by the long-running elaborate piss-take that is Redbaiter (see his 3 simple things to improve TVNZ for why I think he's a piss-take - or at least, why I hope he is one), when I was struck by a comment from Sideshow Bob. To save linking you over there yet again, I'll quote him in full:

MSM and some leftwing know it alls like to frequently comment about the white middle age trash that comments on rightwing blogs. Do not hear much comment about the comments on leftwing blogs, oh thats right they usually don’t like comment or it is quickly removed, such is their love of free thought and free speech (Tui add ). I’m with Redbaiter, what the left can’t stand are that the peasants are daring to challenge their world veiw.

Leaving aside the terrible grammar and the fact that I quite possibly count as "white middle age trash that comments on right wing blogs," I think it is actually fair enough comment. Lefty blogs have an appalling track record in this respect.

It's a given of the internet that if it's possible to leave comments, saddos like Dad4Justice or Millsy will turn up and indulge their personal obsessions, hurl abuse and litter the place with exclamation marks. Right-wing blogs suffer this as much as the left, and banning the trolls or switching comments off because of them simply confirms their paranoia for them. Ignoring them is by far the best bet (and I admit to a signal failure in this respect when it comes to D4J).

Another given of the internet is that if you post a left-wing opinion and allow comments, the hate-filled munter end of the right wing is likely to turn up and spew its bile all over your thread. And just to be clear, I don't mean by this right-wingers who turn up and make a good argument you don't like and can't answer, I'm talking about the ones who do a good line in vile abuse of any social group they don't personally belong to, and not much else. It's probably this aspect, rather than the trolling, which leads blogs like Capitalism Bad; Tree Pretty, Just Left and No Right Turn to adopt restrictive comments policies or turn comments off altogether.

I think that's the wrong approach. For one thing, it's worth having this stuff on display as a reminder to the country that there's still no shortage of these people out there. For another, it's worth noting that Public Address: System doesn't seem to suffer this problem very often, because hate-spewers are swiftly shown up for what they are by people who are patently their intellectual and moral superiors.

In short, make a stand for freedom of expression if you believe in it, lefto bloggers! Or have the guts to say so if you don't.


dad4justice said...

Thank you for the kind words psycho . I wouldn't expect anything less from you and please I will tone my bile and run with facts .

Oh yes Russell Brown from soft news Paris Hilton wublic dress set me up after I posted 50 runs on his board .
Mr Brown adopted the typical position of a champagne liarbour socialist .

Do have a good day defending the indefensible , as a whole new dawn is coming melt . ( Look no ex marks you silly nutbar )

KG said...

Mostly pretty fair comments there PM but I have to say that in A Western Heart we've had to ban a few lefty commenters because of the level of personal abuse. They don't make an argument at all, just abuse post authors.
But we have a couple of lefty commenters who put up good arguments and "fight their corner" to good effect and they're treated (mostly) with courtesy and counter-argument.
In Crusader Rabbit the policy is different--lefty commenters get just one shot at making an argument and if it's not abusive and not some "troofer" bilge then it'll be answered with courtesy at least.Such commenters are welcome.
Because the blog isn't there to provide a platform for alternative viewpoints I don't feel any obligation at all to host them, and screams about CR being an "echo chamber" and "intolerant" fall on deaf ears.
For what it's worth, No Minister seems to get the balance about as good as it's possible to get and I admire that. (even if you and I probably couldn't agree on what time of day it is)
:-) my 2c worth.

dad4justice said...

Hey PM how come you can call a person a c..t on kiwiblog when I would get banned when I speak like that !

The double standard stinks = ban enforcer !!

Psycho Milt said...

Thanks for the reasoned response, KG. I believe lefty trolling from Millsy was one of the reasons No Right Turn no longer allows comments, so it does cut both ways.

Dad4Justice, I'll charitably assume it's poor reading comprehension and not mental incapacity fuelling your misunderstanding.

1. I called no-one a cunt on Kiwiblog. I did offer Redbaiter the handy tip that if you write a satiric paraphrase of someone's arguments and pretend it's a direct quote from them, it makes you look a cunt. This is no more than a statement of fact - whether you think Redbaiter has made himself look a cunt or not by this definition is entirely a matter of personal opinion.

2. As far as I can recall, I've never banned anyone from my comments threads, whether on No Blog Here, Sir Humphrey's or No Minister.

dad4justice said...

"I'll charitably assume it's poor reading comprehension and not mental incapacity fuelling your misunderstanding."

Roger nome fell for the same "misunderstanding".

Do have a good day and I have no doubts we will duel again on blogosphere .

Shout Above The Noise said...

I'm trying to make an effort to be more civil these days, admittedly I've written some stupid shit over at Just Left etc.

C'mon Milt, what are your favourite bands ? You use the 'Crass' logo and also mentioned Black Flag the other day.

Psycho Milt said...

I guess we know Roger Nome's personal opinion on the matter then, Dad4Justice...

I'm an aging punk rocker, Shout Above the Noise, which must be currently about as deeply uncool as it gets. Still, I presume you're one too, judging by your icon. I was put in mind of Black Flag cos I've been digitising old vinyl sporadically for the last year or so - Crass, Black Flag, Buzzcocks, Stranglers, all the oldies but goodies. Quite a bit I'd already replaced on CD - Pistols, Clash, Magazine, Stiff Little Fingers etc. But I'm also a glam fan so have plenty of David Bowie, Slade, Roxy Music and T Rex, as well as less glammy stuff like Hawkwind, Led Zep, Black Sabbath etc. After punk I went through various hardcore type stuff in the 80s - Dead Kennedys, Bad Brains, Big Black, Butthole Surfers etc, before settling on alt stuff like Sonic Youth, Pavement and so on. Am now playing it safe with good white boy rock bands like Queens of the Stone Age and Dandy Warhols, but after all, old age is creeping up.

dad4justice said...

Hey psycho dude, I to am a aging punk rocker oi oi oi mate , that has been to every concert I could grab a ticket for . The highlight was drinking piss with the Pogues after a concert .

Talk about a laugh . I love Pink Floyd and everything musical that came out in the 60's and 70's .

Stranglers - If the moneys no good - just get a grip of yourself .........

Anonymous said... one who recieved multiple bans at humph one..!

and you are going to love my radio station(s)..


dad4justice said...

Hey phil I am in the ban club at kiwiblog and hard news , it reminds me off getting a bluee from the pub saying don't come back here, naughty, naughty boy , judge says prison and the shit hits the fan all over again ??
Dam piss has a lot to answer for and I disturbed about the posting of liarbour Tomato Sauce as that's it, I cannot take it any longer and I f##king off to go and make love to a f##king iceberg .

Psycho Milt said...

Sir Humphreys was Antarctic Lemur's blog, so he got to ban whomever he wanted. I never asked him to ban anyone.

Now that you mention it though, the people who bitch about lefty bloggers banning people never bother to mention AL's hair trigger.

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Good post Milt. (I'm so sad you appear to have missed out on Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Benny Goodman and the like.)

Yes, Lemur was quick on the draw, no doubt about that but as you say, it was his show. Here at No Min I'v found it quite useful to privately e-mail any commenter who I feel has overstepped the mark. So far so good. Of course anyone who slips in with personal abuse doesn't receive such courtesy.

helmet said...

Perhaps the lack of crappy trolling comments over at Public Address is because they hardly ever post on anything controversial any more?
I mean, a quick glance today reveals just about all of the items for view are RWC related. No doubt some of the guys there are sharp, but they're more of an entertainment site than a discussion forum these days IMHO

Anonymous said...


I would like to congratulate you on your timely and excellent use of the word "munter". It has appeared in several of your more recent posts and comments.

I have not heard that word since high are certainly "keeping it real, and keeping it young".

Anonymous said...

you can 'cringe' now..p.m..


Tane said...

The blog I write for - - is safely left-wing and allows comments. Come on over and join the discussion. We're more than happy to debate.

Shout Above The Noise said...

Yes PM, good choice of bands, I know them all well.

PS - As Mr Tips said, I haven't heard the term 'munter' since about 1979..I must use it in conversation.

Psycho Milt said...

Thanks for the invitation Tane - I hadn't discovered the Standard yet (er, mainly cos I hang about on the same small number of blogs all the time, not cos you were hiding it or anything).

Phil - feel free to come back and promote your radio station when it's live.

noizy said...

sorry, a bit late to this conversation, but, as far as right-wingers go, Murray at Hitting Metal With a Hammer doesn't seem averse to threatening to ban left-wing commenters at the slightest of pretences (like, being suspected of left-wing beliefs, for example).

Not sure if he's figured out how to actually do it though - despite his various threats to ban or report my "psycophantic trolling", I still seem to be able to post ok.